Tipping.

We lived in America at one point and were amazed how big the tips left were.

We went out for a "greasy spoon" beeakfast with new friends shortly after we arrived there - and they left ten dollars

But as they said then, we can afford to go out for breakfast- maybe they can too. I couldn't believe the appalling wages.

As others have said, we pay the wages of many workers through government top-ups because the business owner pays the minimum they can get away with.

A Morrisons worker was telling me only this week that they had a pay rise - it turns out this was only in line with the minimum wage changes in April. They said all the other supermarkets pay more and they were trying to get a union organised to lobby for better wages.

Sometimes I do, depends how much I have in my purse and what sort of service I've received. But I always leave something for the room maids. It must be such hard work changing all those beds and cleaning bathrooms everyday, picking up after others for a minimum wage. All too aware lots of hotel staff have to save every spare penny to give their kids a holiday

Thanks, GrannyGravy13, I suspected something like that might be the case.

Blondiescot

I've never been to the USA, so just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't tip?

We had incredibly bad service one time in the USA, DH didn’t tip and the waiter was extremely abusive, shouting and swearing despite having two young children with us

I've never been to the USA, so just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't tip?

Callistemon21 Wed 03-May-23 23:07:21
Two dollars? 😲

... that was my reaction, too.

But I read it somewhere on the 'net a few hours ago, also.

Two dollars? 😲

Australia, by contrast, where tipping is disapproved of:
From 1 July 2022, the national minimum wage is $21.38 per hour or $812.60 per 38 hour week (before tax).
Casual employees covered by the national minimum wage also get at least a 25% casual loading

So I just checked and there is a Federal minimum wage just over 2 dollars, but states set their own. There's then a complicated thing taking tips into account www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/minimum-wage-tipped-employees-by-state/#:~:text=Federal%20law%20sets%20the%20minimum,state%20minimum%20wage%20before%20tips.

Dickens is right Vintagenonna - most of the US has no minimum wage.
In restaurants and cafés staff rely on the tip.
20% is fair if service is as you would expect. More if good. Just "factor it in" when you go out to eat.

Yes I tip….not a lot, just a pound. I think I should increase it to £2

MissChateline

I totally disagree with tipping. I think that it encourages employers to maintain the lowest wages that they can get away with legally. It infuriates me when a service charge is added on to a bill. I know that it is discretionary but it can be uncomfortable asking for it to be removed.

Yes, I agree.

valdali

Good points Dickens. I hate tipping - but I do (not my window-cleaner, dustmen at christmas etc as I'm just not organised enough to remember when they'll be coming & be in, but anything I'm paying anyway, taxis, hairdresser, waiting staff).I get really anxious about it too - agonise over tipping too little or tipping more than they would've expected. For goodness sake charge a bit more in the first place & pass it onto the staff - then everyone knows what's expected. It's a silly game as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, trying to work out what to give - or checking if 'gratuities' are already included on the bill... worried you'll be thought mean - or an over-generous fool. It's a pain in the neck!

We are tipping people basically who do low-wage and often menial work. Though not always of course. A fully-trained professional hairdresser - or the chiropodist who visits my partner at home... he tips her - why?! She refused at first - her fee covers all her costs and allows for a profit... but he insisted and so she graciously accepts.

Thanks Nandana i m certainly not looking for an argument
I m expressing an opinion, just because it doesn’t fit with yours doesn’t make it any less valid

Good points Dickens. I hate tipping - but I do (not my window-cleaner, dustmen at christmas etc as I'm just not organised enough to remember when they'll be coming & be in, but anything I'm paying anyway, taxis, hairdresser, waiting staff).I get really anxious about it too - agonise over tipping too little or tipping more than they would've expected. For goodness sake charge a bit more in the first place & pass it onto the staff - then everyone knows what's expected. It's a silly game as far as I'm concerned.

Callistemon21

I agree that it's wrong but I'm not at all sure what happens with full-time permanent jobs.

I think that's a different kettle of fish. From what I recall being told by an American business colleague some years ago now when we were talking about the differences between our two cultures - there are full-time jobs which not only pay the standard rate (whatever that is) but also offer health insurance as part of the package. Though I do wonder how widespread this is.

The thing I have against tipping is that it harks back to the medieval master-serf dynamic!

... and how the heck can anyone budget on tips!

Of course - I tip. It's the done thing, and I'd feel mean not doing it knowing how some struggle on low wages. But in principle I'll never accept that it's right. If you're in the business and can't pay a reasonable wage to those who work for you, you've failed at business as far as I'm concerned!

I tipped the lady who painted my toenails today in her own home. I’ve used her for years, probably only twice a year as it’s shellac, at £10 a bargain.

I agree that it's wrong but I'm not at all sure what happens with full-time permanent jobs.

The reason the US tips so much is that the waiting staff are often working for nothing and rely on tips.

I think this is immoral.

Why should anyone work for nothing and rely on hand-outs.

It's a horrible form of Capitalism, having to rely on someone's good will, someone you are waiting on - like a servant.

I'm sure someone might reassure me that the system works fine - I know mine is a minority view anyway... but I know that if I was a low-skilled individual trying to make a living, I'd hate having to be dependent on the generosity of others in order to survive. Do such people pocket enough money to buy a house, and private medical insurance - or do they just get by? Might be OK for a student living at home with mum and dad, but how, for example does a single-parent manage? There's obviously no money if you're off sick, or your child is unwell.

I hope we don't go down that route. I know the hospitality industry doesn't pay well, but at least it's recognised that if you sell your labour, you are entitled to be paid for it.

Callistemon21

^My niece who lives in America says the British are known for not tipping. The reason the US tips so much is that the waiting staff are often working for nothing and rely on tips^

Yes, true Glorianny, one of my DD worked for an American firm for a few months when she was travelling; the pay was abysmal but the tips were excellent! She saved enough to fund the rest of a gap year.

When we tried to tip a waitress in Australia she was embarrassed said no tipping was allowed. The pay rates are good over there, minimum wage is higher than in the UK plus holiday, sick pay and pension contributions are paid even for casual workers.

It's funny isn't it, completely different systems. College students in the US work in the most prestigious holiday resorts and earn enough in tips to support themselves.
We seem as usual to be somewhere in the middle.
I think we may be heading more towards the US way

My niece who lives in America says the British are known for not tipping. The reason the US tips so much is that the waiting staff are often working for nothing and rely on tips

Yes, true Glorianny, one of my DD worked for an American firm for a few months when she was travelling; the pay was abysmal but the tips were excellent! She saved enough to fund the rest of a gap year.

When we tried to tip a waitress in Australia she was embarrassed said no tipping was allowed. The pay rates are good over there, minimum wage is higher than in the UK plus holiday, sick pay and pension contributions are paid even for casual workers.

We went out for lunch recently with a small group; the restaurant wanted a non-refundable £10 deposit per person . One of our party had an accident and couldn't go but even though they let the restaurant know a couple of days previously, they had to forfeit the £10. There was also a 10% service charge. Did we leave a tip? Certainly not.
We shan't be going there again.

I don’t tip all the time. Like Dickens and Bluebelle I don’t agree with it. It’s an outdated custom, originally brought in to increase promptitude meaning to ensure good service. Not at the end of the service, at the beginning to ensure good service. The timing has changed. People are paid minimum wages today, and it would easily be possible for a person to tip who earned less than the person they were tipping.

I do give my hairdresser extra. That’s because she owns the business but charges far less than other hairdressers. I pay £45 for a colour, cut, and blow dry. Other salons charge £100 and more. I always give her more than what she asks because she’s worth it.

Who on earth would tip for a coffee? Complete madness!

My niece who lives in America says the British are known for not tipping. The reason the US tips so much is that the waiting staff are often working for nothing and rely on tips. The philosophy is food is reasonably cheap and so eating out is reasonably priced, it's up to you how good you judge the service to be and if it is exceptional you will tip more. It's believed to encourage better service. It isn't something I'm entirely comfortable with, but that's how it works. Brits of course just think they are getting a cheap meal.

I tip for service I think is good, people who go out of their way to help and people who are friendly. Taxis, hairdressers, waiters, porters any of them.

Not punch!!!! Punish.

Low wages are propped up by our benefits system. So in effect, some benefits are a subsidy to big business.

The only way out of this, is to stop voting in greedy capitalist governments. Far, far out of the reach of the average service worker to influence this. So not fair to punch people on a low income for the behaviour/decisions of the top 1% wealthiest people in the world.