The Archbishop of Canterbury is to be knighted

If anyone needs spiritual guidance surely it’s KC3 with his emphasis on defender of faiths not one faith? He might be a touch conflicted in a number of ways? If Justin Welby has been able to help him then good.

Jesus was judgemental about the Scribes and the Pharisees.
Religious leaders should not set themselves above others by being offered or accepting prestigious honours.
Jesus would not have approved.

FACT - As Sir Justin Welby, he will NOT be entitled to sit in the House of Lords.

There are a lot of Scribes and Pharisees around, who know nothing of the system by which they are governed, but are highly active in condemning people for imagined political activism.

Jesus was VERY judgemental indeed and very politically minded.

Jesus said

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Elegran

FACT - As Sir Justin Welby, he will NOT be entitled to sit in the House of Lords.

Elegran as a senior bishop Welby is already entitled to a seat in the HOL and has been doing I think for quite a while.
It doesn’t need a Sir or anything else other than being who he is already.

One of the AB of C's duties is leading big services. He is the head of the Christian community in Britain - of course he leads one of the main Christian services. Of course the head of state attends that service.

How do you know, maddyone, what Welby does at every moment of the day? You know for certain that he was never out to the homeless? You must be psychic - unless you live next door and keep watching through the curtains.

Jesus would not approve? How do you know that He doesn't approve of Justin Welby? Are you certain that He doesn't approve of political actions either, for instance those actions that put forward humanitarian attitudes to current problems?

Anniebach that’s right, Jesus wasn’t judgemental and wasn’t political either.

Oreo

Elegran

FACT - As Sir Justin Welby, he will NOT be entitled to sit in the House of Lords.

Elegran as a senior bishop Welby is already entitled to a seat in the HOL and has been doing I think for quite a while.
It doesn’t need a Sir or anything else other than being who he is already.

Then why are so many people objecting to him getting a tame little thank-you of a knighthood for his help with the coronation? Do they think he is about to get uppity and throw his weight about because he will be SIR JW ? He is more likely to continue being who he is already - a pretty unassuming cleric, apparently.

Ah, see where you’re coming from maddyone yes according to the NT Jesus was judgemental to scribes and others who thought themselves above the hoi polloi and who stuck to the letter of the law around religion but didn’t do any good or charitable works.

Elegran Am guessing it’s about loading honours on to a senior bishop who already has high status, simply for his help during the Coronation which is one of his duties in any case.

Yes Oreo, thank you. I’m glad someone can see what I’m saying.
Others, not so much.

I first attended Mass age 11, took my young daughters and my grandchildren to Mass. I am thankful the priests did attend church services did don their church robes.

Fellowship is so important.

Nothing wrong with robes or dog collars Annie.

If Justin Welby does accept a knighthood it will be for personal
service, no different to me giving a thank you gift to the priest who gave me much when my husband died .

Oreo

Anniebach that’s right, Jesus wasn’t judgemental and wasn’t political either.

Not in a party political sense. But his opinions, views, whatever you may wish to call them, got him into big trouble with the authorities of the day, because he said them loud and clear.

In Matthew 23 Jesus pronounces “woes” on the scribes and Pharisees, the religious elite of the day. The word woe is an exclamation of grief, denunciation, or distress. This was not the first time Jesus had some harsh words for the religious leaders of His day. Why did Jesus rebuke them so harshly here? Looking at each woe gives some insight.

Before pronouncing the woes, Jesus told His listeners to respect the scribes and Pharisees due to their position of authority but not to emulate them, “for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for people to see” (Matthew 23:3–5). The scribes and Pharisees were supposed to know God and help others know Him and follow His ways. Instead, the religious leaders added to God’s Law, making it a cumbersome and onerous burden. And they did not follow God with a pure heart. Their religion was not true worship of God; rather, it was rooted in a prideful heart. Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount emphasizes the true intent of the Law over the letter of the Law. The scribes and Pharisees emphasized the letter, completely missing its spirit.

The first woe is, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” (Matthew 23:13). Jesus cares for people. He desires for them to know Him and to enter into His kingdom (John 3:16–17; 10:10, 17; 2 Peter 3:9). After rebuking the scribes and Pharisees, Jesus lamented over rebellious Jerusalem (Matthew 23:37–39). Clearly, His heart is for people to find life in Him. It stands to reason, then, that He would have harsh words for those who prevented people from finding salvation. The teachers of the Law and Pharisees were not truly seeking after God, though they acted as if they were. Their religion was empty, and it was preventing others from following the Messiah.

In the second woe, Jesus condemns the scribes and Pharisees for making strenuous efforts to win converts and then leading those converts to be “twice as much” children of hell as the scribes and Pharisees were (Matthew 13:15). In other words, they were more intent on spreading their religion than on maintaining the truth.

The third woe Jesus pronounces against the scribes and Pharisees calls the religious leaders “blind guides” and “blind fools” (Matthew 23:16–17). Specifically, Jesus points out, they nit-picked about which oaths were binding and which were not, ignoring the sacred nature of all oaths and significance of the temple and God’s holiness (verses 15–22).

The fourth woe calls out the scribes and Pharisees for their practice of diligently paying the tithe while neglecting to actually care for people. While they were counting their mint leaves to make sure they gave one tenth to the temple, they “neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness” (Matthew 23:23). Once again, they focused on the letter of the Law and obeyed it with pride, but they missed the weightier things of God. Their religion was external; their hearts were not transformed.

Jesus elaborates on their hypocrisy in the fifth woe. He tells the religious leaders they appear clean on the outside, but they have neglected the inside. They perform religious acts but do not have God-honoring hearts. It does no good, Jesus says, to clean up the outside when the inside is “full of greed and self-indulgence” (Matthew 23:25). The Pharisees and scribes are blind and do not recognize that, when the inside is changed, the outside, too, will be transformed.

In the sixth woe, Jesus claims the scribes and Pharisees are “like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean” (Matthew 23:27). The deadness inside of tombs is likened to the “hypocrisy and wickedness” inside the religious leaders (verse 28). Once again, they appear to obey God, but their hearts are far from Him (see Matthew 15:7–9 and Isaiah 29:13).

Jesus concludes His seven-fold rebuke by telling the religious leaders that they are just like their fathers, who persecuted the prophets of old. In building monuments to the prophets, they testify against themselves, openly admitting that it was their ancestors who killed the prophets (Matthew 23:29–31). Although they arrogantly claim that they would not have done so, they are the ones who will soon plot the murder of the Son of God Himself (Matthew 26:4).

Jesus’ words are harsh because there was so much at stake. Those who followed the Pharisees and scribes were being kept from following God. So much of the teaching in Jesus’ day was in direct contradiction of God’s Word (see Matthew 15:6). The religious leaders made a mockery out of following God. They did not truly understand God’s ways, and they led others away from God. Jesus’ desire was that people would come to know God and be reconciled with Him. In Matthew 11:28–30 Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Unlike the burdens the scribes and Pharisees laid on the people in a human effort to gain reconciliation with God, Jesus gives true rest. The religious leaders spread lies covered in a veneer of godliness (John 8:44); Jesus spoke harshly against them because He came to bring life (John 10:10).

Also, the word woe carries with it a tinge of sorrow. There is an element of imprecation, to be sure, but with it an element of compassionate sadness. The seven woes that Jesus pronounces on the religious leaders are solemn declarations of future misery. The stubbornness of the sinners to whom He speaks is bringing a judgment to be feared. The scribes and Pharisees are calling down God’s wrath upon themselves, and they are to be pitied.

Immediately after Jesus’ rebuke of the scribes and Pharisees, we see Jesus’ compassion. He asks, “How will you escape being condemned to hell?” (Matthew 23:33). Jesus then expresses His desire to gather the people of Israel to Himself for safety, if only they were willing (verse 37). God longs for His people to come to Him and find forgiveness. Jesus was not harsh to be mean. He was not having a temper tantrum. Rather, love guided His actions. Jesus spoke firmly against the deception of Satan out of a desire for people to know truth and find life in Him.

Oreo

Ah, see where you’re coming from maddyone yes according to the NT Jesus was judgemental to scribes and others who thought themselves above the hoi polloi and who stuck to the letter of the law around religion but didn’t do any good or charitable works.

Yeah Fleurpepper but I think I covered it succinctly in the first place.😁

Justin Welby is considered- a Pharisee by some?

You did cover it succinctly Oreo😁

They were like so many people today- knowing all the rules, but following the rules that suit them, and ignoring those that don’t suit them, whether it be wearing/not wearing masks, getting or refusing vaccines, defacing traffic signs, or staying out of places where they shouldn’t be.

Granny rose so would you like us all to go back to the days when people were scared of priests and ministers and did what they were told out of fear?
We are NOT sheep.education has changed that way of thinking ,its no longer the "opiate of the masses" threaten hell or offer heaven to get the same result...people who will believe all they are told and follow the guidance of some very flawed clerics .
I'm very pleased so many go against their churches nowadays.I knew young married women who had babies every year because they had been told contraception was a sin.One young family who wouldn't have had a mother if the dad had followed the priests guidance of save the baby first! I know that to be true it was MY mother it was said of.
Religion is the cause of so much of the worlds troubles and yes Christians are as culpable as any other faith group

Saddens me to read so much criticism of Justin Welby, no one has posted anything he may have said to earn - Pharisee,
I was so fortunate to have been invited to meet Archbishop
Desmond Tutu when he visited Wales , a godly man , yet being an Archbishop he was all robes and church services for some

Anniebach

Saddens me to read so much criticism of Justin Welby, no one has posted anything he may have said to earn - Pharisee,
I was so fortunate to have been invited to meet Archbishop
Desmond Tutu when he visited Wales , a godly man , yet being an Archbishop he was all robes and church services for some

Saddens me to read so much criticism of Justin Welby, no one has posted anything he may have said to earn - Pharisee,

I agree.

M0nica

The AB of C is not responsible for closing churches, That has been going on for decades. My sister headed an organisation deputed with finding new uses for redundant churches back in the 1970s-90s.

Churches are closing because people do not go to church anymore. If nobody goes to church, no one is providing money to maintain them therefore they close.

Absolutely.
People use the church when it suits them.
I think they think it’s funded by the Government.
It isn’t and churches all over the country are at risk of closing.
Does it matter?
Even if you believe it does I think it may be too late. Our vicars are so stretched that they can’t give the pastoral care they signed up for. Their parishioners feel short changed. Is there a way back?

People use the Church when it suits them is true PamelaJJ. I confess to no longer being a regular church goer. It doesn’t mean I don’t think about faith, or get a lot out of services when I do attend. Our Church has become more evangelical and I’m more of a traditionalist.
My children and their children were Christened there. My husband’s funeral service took place there. We, me and our daughters, were comforted by our vicar and by the service.

I’m often surprised by the way some anti religion people are highly critical of faith leaders. Not an easy job