My Value

ferry23 I would ask her directly. Don’t bottle it up. Sounds very “off” to me.

My daughter and her husband live just over an hour away from me. He runs his own company, she has a demanding job, but works from home 3 days a week. I haven't seen them since Christmas because apparently it's "difficult" as she doesn't drive, he's very busy and she would have to get a train down to see me.

Strangely enough, she's managed to get the train to Wales and Chester to see friends for the weekend. They're going to France for the weekend with some friends the week after next and the week after that they're going away for their anniversary. They've spent the last 4 years holidaying in Crete with my son-in-law's family and drove 4 hours to see his Mum last month, and then 4 hours back (I don't resent his Mum for this by the way).

They have no children so I'm not needed for childcare duties. Sometimes it seems I'm not needed for anything, so I feel your pain!

Good for you raising your weariness with your older daughter. This may have got to the younger daughter and her "normal" visit was the result.

Please try not to focus all your self-worth on your daughters' families. Do something for you occasionally.
What about a fitness class or a craft one where you will see the same faces weekly and build a new little friendship circle?

Well done for just surviving this tough last few days - now do not go back into the same old pattern.

Child care is very expensive and most mothers have to work because one income isn't enough anymore in these cash strapped times.

However, self value is far more important than having to gain that value from others.

Often women (and men of course, sometimes) feel that their value lies in doing things for others. This is fine if you also do things for yourself, because often if you make youself available then the balance often tips into being 'used' as opposed to being 'useful',

Your daughters treat you like this because they can, pure and simple. I think it is time to start asserting yourself instead of blaming them.

Book some regular you time- meet friends, go to the gym, whatever it is you do for yourself and then write your schedule down for them. What would happen if you broke a leg? They would have to find someone else.

Just let them know that your being useful doesn't mean being used. Then live your life.

Well things have been up and down. Firstly my elder DD messaged me to ask which days I’d be free to have my GS this week (!). I took on board all your comments and I told her exactly how I felt. Then surprise surprise my younger DD messaged me and said the younger GD’s, the toddlers, wanted to see me so she’d come up later in the morning. No apologies. She then told me she had booked (another) holiday, second this year, and also gave me a few ideas for what I could get for my youngest GD for her Birthday. So far so normal. Nothing was mentioned by me but I’ve an idea that what I’ve said will filter through at some point, and I didn’t want to end up getting upset when the little ones are there.
This has really weighted me down since last Wednesday, it’s drained me, I’ve not been sleeping, crying and low, it doesn’t take much to knock me back down to rock bottom given out the last 3 years but for now I’m relieved that my youngest DD is speaking to me again. It’s time for things to change.

I think that sounds like a good plan Grammaretto. If one has spare money then often it’s a case of ‘problem solved’. Money often gives choices in most situations.

I heard from a df, who is a gran and on her own, that she pays for 2 days nursery for her baby DGS out of her pension.
This amounts to about £250 a month.
My eyebrows raised but I thought of you motherduck and can see this as a preferred solution in some cases.

It's a big ask to expect us older women to be always on hand.

When I was a SAHM I met some others at Toddler group and we formed our own child share one morning a week at eachothers' houses Every 4 weeks you were on duty and had the chaos but on your mornings off you could feel human. I used this time for dentist, hair, library, shoe quiet coffee, shopping etc
We have kept up those early friendships to some degree.
There are probably no such things as toddler groups now.

Thank you for coming back, Motherduck it really sounds like uou are being taken advantage of. I expect it has gradually crept up on you and you will have to be very strong for a while to reverse the trend.

I really think you need to look after yourself first... (as they say during the emergency briefing on flights) put your own oxygen mask on first"!

If your younger daughter has a good circle of friends, why don't they call on each other for help I wonder? Would she turn to them if you were unavailable I wonder?

Please look after yourself or you won't be able to help anyone.

Did I just read that your youngest daughter is a stay at home mum? Why on earth is she asking for help, other than perhaps occasional babysitting or emergencies? I really wouldn't countenance that. You need to put your foot down OP. Very firmly! You are being a doormat.

I think I was “ lucky” in living too far away to help routinely with grandchildren, though we helped out in school holidays. I didn’t see so much of the grandchildren but it didn't stop us having a good relationship.
Assume nothing, then anything is a bonus.
Now my children and grandchildren have helped me a lot in the year since my husband died, especially the males! Son and son-in-law both provide meals and grandsons help in practical ways.

Primrose - your SIL was a saint !

Motherduck, I do feel for you. When you made the commitment you your older daughter, you wouldn't have known that your younger daughter would have children and expect the same amount of time to hers.

Maybe think of it as time per family. Let your older daughter know that you may need to cut back, and keep track of the time given to help the younger daughter, but realizing she has two kids instead of the one. Sit your daughters down and let them know you are getting older and a bit tired, and feeling unappreciated. Let then know how many hours per week you are available.

It also sounds like your younger daughter is a bit selfish, expecting help when she is a stay at home mum. It really sounds like you do help out quite a bit.

I think if it were me I would go radio-silence for a while and let them reach out.

My SIL was a slave to her adult children and grandchildren. She had to leave home about 6.30 in the morning to travel by bus to get to her daughter’s for 7.30 as she had to be at work for 8.30. She went off then my SIL had to give the kids breakfast and walk them to school which was a tidy walk.
She then spent the day cleaning or ironing for her daughter before collecting the kids and amusing/feeding them until their Mum got home. She then had another hour long bus ride home. She did this once a week.

She had had major cancer surgery some years before so was not in the best of health. Her condition deteriorated and she couldn’t do it on her own anymore, not even the travelling. So her husband drove her up there and did the school runs and brought her home. Not once did her children say they would pay a childminder, they just expected her to carry on.

Then she got really ill and had to tell them she couldn’t do it anymore and they were like “what are we going to do?” So their Dad did it but didn’t like leaving his wife alone. The children once came over with their kids with streaming colds and coughs and she was furious that they did so knowing she has no immune system.

She died very suddenly not long after and they were selling all her stuff within weeks. I will never be able to look at them in a good light again.😢

Your ungrateful daughters have no idea of how much they are imposing on you, and this will continue until you tell them.
I would print out the posts you have written here and browse them when you are not so stressed. Work out just how much time and support you are giving your daughters.

You are working part-time, doing 3-4 school runs a week and looking after grandchildren after school and in the holidays. You are also caring for toddlers so their mother can attend to her social life, and for all this you receive little gratitude and plenty of criticism. At the same time you are coping with grief.
Decide just what you want to do, how much of your time you wish to devote to your grandchildren and how much time you wish/need to devote to yourself.
Draw up a schedule for each daughter, tell them exactly how you feel, once only, then withdraw and make sure you have something planned to occupy your time.
Be firm about sticking to your schedule, not theirs.

Primrose53

I think this thread might be useful to people who are expecting their first grandchildren. Think carefully about how much time you can give to childminding, babysitting etc and then when and if you are asked to help out you can discuss it openly before things get too “organised” and you feel you can’t back out.

My mother very kindly told me that when i had my first she would not be grandma daycare. She would help of she could, but mostly would help on her own schedule. I appreciated the clarity.

Once my children were born, she and her husband talked about putting regular money aside. I had to remind them not to put more aside than they could afford to do for my siblings and step siblings once they had children.

Obviously as I had the first grandchildren, the grandparents were younger and had more energy.

Clear boundaries and conversation is the best way forward

NotSpaghetti

Which arrangement was made first? The house viewing or your grandson's outing? Personally, I think house viewing can be awkward at the best of times...

Could the grandson wait a week? Can the children not view a house too?

I think you should maybe look at something you want to do - ideally on a regular basis- and start doing something for yourself.

Thinking of you.

The house viewing had been mentioned at the weekend and I got the wrong end of the stick in that I had the impression that DD was’t sure whether in fact she was going to view the house or not, because her partner was away this week and she was undecided whether to view the house without him. It was a loose conversation in my mind but she was, and still is upset that I didn’t keep Wednesday morning free.
It’s half term and therefore I had my grandson here for 2 days. We went out day one and that evening I booked tickets on line to go out again with him the next day.
I think DD is also annoyed with me because I look after my grandson in the school hols (a few days per week) and I make myself available to do 3 sometimes 4 school runs a week, whereas she finds herself stressed and tired with 2 toddlers while her partner is away in the week. And takes it out on me! This has reared its head over and over again and I feel that she takes it out on me unless, I can give her an agreed day/days per week to help her. It’s the entitlement of it though, the attitude that upsets me.
I never had this support, I worked full time without any help from grandparents. And yes I vowed that I would do things differently when I had grandchildren but one or two of the posts on here have expressed it perfectly.. that it’s the sense of entitlement.
I do help her, unless I’m working (small part time hours) I always help whenever she asks me, not full days, but I have the toddlers when she has her hair/nails done, meals out with her partner, doc/dentist/hospital appointments, any situation when she asks me I help her. I also asked her could I take her eldest toddler out with us (husband and I) last weekend, but she had plans. So I do try.
Some background, DD has a lovely home, premium car, holidays, designer clothes, every kitchen and home luxury she could ask for, 3/4 holidays a year, hair and nails done regularly, she doesn’t work and her partner deposits extra money every week so that she can go out for lunch for example, see friends, go swimming, days out, play groups etc. I don’t want to paint a picture of a young women with 2 toddlers who is stressed, tired and isolated. She has a strong friends circle and rather a nice life. Her eldest toddler goes to a private nursury 2 days a week ‘to give her some space/time to catch up with housework etc but invariably she takes the younger toddler to a playgroup then goes out shopping for the rest of the day. It’s how she unwinds I guess and she climbs the walls if she stays in with them on her own. But, she feels hard done by and resents my time given to other grandchildren.
When I ‘retired’ from my full time career I looked after the little grandson when his Mum (eldest DD) returned to work after maternity leave and I have continued to collect him from school now as he’s round the corner and is no trouble. If I’m home on said day it’s of no trouble to go and collect him. My Youngest DD has said on more than one occasion that I should now be giving that sort of time to her 2 toddlers.
Some further background, we have suffered a profound family loss in the last few years which has affected my mental health and in turn my health. I’m no longer the ‘young/fit/active/ outlooking person/grandparent I was. The family I have left keep me going but my health is compromised now and I honestly don’t have the energy to look after 2 rather demanding toddlers for a whole day. A few hours is fine. When I’ve tried to explain my health issues to her I don’t feel heard as we all deal with our grief differently.
In spite of all I’ve explained (and ultimately got off my chest) it’s the fact that I feel taken for granted, if the eldest DD just once rang me for a chat or invited me for coffee I wouldn’t feel as sad this week, I know at the weekend I’ll get the text ‘what are your shifts next week Mum’ so that the school runs can be pencilled in.
Things have got on top of me this week and your messages/comments have helped me gain some perspective.

Like others have said, you are not alone and many of us also feel taken for granted.

I didn't realise, 20 odd years ago when first grandchild was on her way, that my role as a grandmother required me to be psychic, have the patience of a saint, skin as tough as old boots, be able to cook Sunday lunch for 8 people in the tiniest kitchen and serve it at a table that seated 4 at most, have all the fabric required for every single fancy-dress costume imaginable, be able to be in three places at the same time, not require sleep, never to feel poorly or remotely under the weather, turn out in sub-zero temperatures in the dead of night to provide a taxi service, be mediator in countless squabbles..........the list goes on as I am sure you are all aware.

However, my AC do realise that I am not invincible, do have aches and pains, do have a life for myself and they also just drop in because they want to see me. They will frequently phone to check in and often make arrangements for an outing. All this came about because I had to start saying NO. Expectations of my time and energy were becoming very unreasonable and I was strong enough to point out that I don't have a crystal ball and I did used to forget things occasionally.

Give her time and space, she will come round but do find the strength to have the discussion based on you have a life and you are not perfect.

You are certainly not alone. My two eldest adult “children” with children of their own are both selfish gits! In fact I am estranged now from my daughter for the last 9 years plus. I still do not know the root of it all but I can guess it was because I worked full time and was expected to drop everything to have her two girls. I love my grand kids but they didn’t expect me to have a life at all. My eldest son is a bit better but I have been estranged from him for 16 months before and we did make it up. But they never phoned to see how I am. At one time I had my daughters two girls all one weekend and then next weekend I had my son’s two for the entire weekend. I came in from work on the friday night and stayed at their house until sunday night. Back to a very stressful job on the Monday morning. It was expected. Now the 4 grand kids are into their teens my services are no longer needed. Even though I had them so much when they were young and now I hardly know what they are doing from one month to the next. Thankfully I do get to see my daughter’s two girls through her ex husband (their dad) or I doubt if I would see them at all. Infact I am certain that if I died then they couldn’t give a toss. Thankfully I have a fantastic younger son who visits often and phones once per week or I would go barmy. I really feel for you. Its a rock and a hard place that they put us in. You take care of yourself my love and do what you want and feel happy with.

biglouis

Part of the problem of this ubiquitous thing called "family life" is that you live through and for other people and not for you. You give away pieces of yourself day by day. Eventually you may reach a stage when there are no more pieces to give. And you often feel guilty even thinking about me and me time.

Time to sit down and seriouly ask yourself how does this kind of life serve me?

Thank you yes that’s hit the nail on the head for me today.

Somebody asked “where are all the men in this.” I see quite a few male/female couples taking grandchildren out around our village. I also see some grandads collecting kids from our local primary school.

Wise words Primrose53 - don't get carried away by your own enthusiasm!

It's much better to offer little and later add to it as you wish than to take away an over generous offering.

I think this thread might be useful to people who are expecting their first grandchildren. Think carefully about how much time you can give to childminding, babysitting etc and then when and if you are asked to help out you can discuss it openly before things get too “organised” and you feel you can’t back out.

petra

Don’t strive to make your presence noticed.
Just make your absence felt.

What an excellent maxim, it could apply to several different situations. I’m going to file it in my brain.
Sorry about your current situation, Motherduck. I hope it all improves.

Which arrangement was made first? The house viewing or your grandson's outing? Personally, I think house viewing can be awkward at the best of times...

Could the grandson wait a week? Can the children not view a house too?

I think you should maybe look at something you want to do - ideally on a regular basis- and start doing something for yourself.

Thinking of you.

This sort of attitude towards others is nothing new. Many older people are the same, as though being older gives them some sort of priority over the needs of others. I'm sure we have all felt taken for granted by those we are involved with, friends as well as family.
You just need to be a bit more selfish and put your own interests first.