Taxing the rich to pay for the poor

One always views life from one’s own perspective

Germanshepherdsmum

Wyllow3

Just wanted to support Foxie's post on those who work in the Legal Aid system. No doubt some of them are mediocre as are those working in other areas but many have chosen it as a form of vital public service and accept its limitations on salaries. As for it being "interesting" or not, well, surely that's in the eye of the beholder?

Will they ever repay their student loans? Highly unlikely. To both be paid by the taxpayer and not repay your debt to the taxpayer is, in my book, unacceptable.

But then student loans were just a political tool to try and gain votes. They were never economically viable and cost equivalent to the old grants system.

Perhaps GSM can explain how Human Rights Lawyers are paid. Arguably the most moral and idealistic of the legal profession is it also the best paid? Someone I know who went into that field did a placement at a very prestigious legal firm in London who dealt mainly with business litigation. One of the comments from someone working there was that she was too bright for them and would go far. She works in human rights law.
It would seem according to GSm's argument that the cleverest legal minds are also the most mercenary. I don't think that can be true.

Wyllow3

Just wanted to support Foxie's post on those who work in the Legal Aid system. No doubt some of them are mediocre as are those working in other areas but many have chosen it as a form of vital public service and accept its limitations on salaries. As for it being "interesting" or not, well, surely that's in the eye of the beholder?

Will they ever repay their student loans? Highly unlikely. To both be paid by the taxpayer and not repay your debt to the taxpayer is, in my book, unacceptable.

how to get to the super rich? very tricky, the system favours them.politicians often in their pockets.Only a change in mindset from within the stinking riches brains is going to change things, when will that happen? Can it be imposed externally, no. The genuine vulnerable need support from the majority of us, as for the feckless etc even Karl Marx wondered about that one! A big problem one day hopefully to be solved.

Germanshepherdsmum

Unfortunately, that doesn’t come across in your posts.

show some compassion GSM.. these comments above are not what I expect from you..

Just wanted to support Foxie's post on those who work in the Legal Aid system. No doubt some of them are mediocre as are those working in other areas but many have chosen it as a form of vital public service and accept its limitations on salaries. As for it being "interesting" or not, well, surely that's in the eye of the beholder?

Germanshepherdsmum

You don’t know much about the law do you foxie?

That's a bit condescending GSM I'm sure you can do better than that. Why not attack my argument rather than me as a person.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t come across in your posts.

foxie48

Having different priorities in life doesn't make people mediocre, they just view life differently. Friend does quite a few murder cases (not that she discusses them) it may not be as "challenging" as some legal work but I know that she considers it very important that she provides the best legal advice and representation that she can as her work can have a great influence on people's lives for better or worse. She often works with people with difficult lives, mental health problems, a history of abuse or addiction, she sees and hears things that are sometimes very difficult to forget, it might not be considered intellectually challenging but it can be challenging in lots of ways that many could not cope with. Mediocre? No.

It's quite sad that some people have such a disparaging view of their fellow human beings.

This might surprise you GSM, but I'm not in the slightest bit bitter. I worked through my feelings about the person who caused my present circumstances many years ago. I've never been happier. I've survived a heart attack and cancer, so am glad to be alive, thanks to the wonderful service I had from the NHS. I'm glad that my diabetes is well-managed too, thanks to regular check ups. I have a small, but supportive and loving group of family and friends. Apart from needing money to pay for my living expenses, there is nothing else I want.

You don’t know much about the law do you foxie?

Having different priorities in life doesn't make people mediocre, they just view life differently. Friend does quite a few murder cases (not that she discusses them) it may not be as "challenging" as some legal work but I know that she considers it very important that she provides the best legal advice and representation that she can as her work can have a great influence on people's lives for better or worse. She often works with people with difficult lives, mental health problems, a history of abuse or addiction, she sees and hears things that are sometimes very difficult to forget, it might not be considered intellectually challenging but it can be challenging in lots of ways that many could not cope with. Mediocre? No.

Thanks maddy. Unless you deal with a lot of big fraud and other white collar cases, there is no challenge. The only firm I worked with which did any criminal work had a well-regarded insurance fraud practice. None of them would have touched ordinary criminal work. It must be mind-numbingly boring.

PS. I wasn't swiping at all, just observing.

Germanshepherdsmum

*growstuff*, using publicly funded services when you pay taxes to provide the funding is not ‘taking from the taxpayer’. It’s those who contribute nothing, or take out more than they contribute, who are the takers, with the exception of those who are genuinely unable to work.

I expect your post of 10.10 was a swipe at me. I am not bitter, nor am I unhappy, and I have never obsessed about money, contrary to what you might think, but I am concerned to keep what is mine, and not to have my property taxed in order to give money to those who won’t work, or won’t work hard enough to keep themselves and their families. Actually you always strike me as being very bitter about your own circumstances.

Of course it's taking from the taxpayer!

growstuff, using publicly funded services when you pay taxes to provide the funding is not ‘taking from the taxpayer’. It’s those who contribute nothing, or take out more than they contribute, who are the takers, with the exception of those who are genuinely unable to work.

I expect your post of 10.10 was a swipe at me. I am not bitter, nor am I unhappy, and I have never obsessed about money, contrary to what you might think, but I am concerned to keep what is mine, and not to have my property taxed in order to give money to those who won’t work, or won’t work hard enough to keep themselves and their families. Actually you always strike me as being very bitter about your own circumstances.

He is the first lawyer in our family and consequently I knew very little about it. I’ve learnt quite a bit now.

GSM that is exactly what my son said when he was talking about going to the Bar. I asked him if he wanted to be a criminal barrister, and his reply was that it’s not challenging enough. He then went on to say that it doesn’t pay well because most of the work is Legal Aid. However the lack of challenge was the first reason given.

Criminal defence work, other than for fraud and other white collar crimes, is not generally very intellectually challenging, foxie. Many people who choose a career in law want that challenge and, unsurprisingly, they don’t want to sit in police stations with undesirable characters at all hours or travel to magistrates’ courts all over the country to deliver a hopeless plea in mitigation. They also want to earn good money after years of study and with a student loan to repay. Not unreasonable.

foxie48 You must have heard the saying about money not making people happy. I don't agree with that because not having enough money for the essentials of life definitely makes people unhappy. However, it does appear that having money and obsessing about it can make people bitter and very unhappy.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t mind anyone sitting on their backside if they are not taking taxpayers’ money. I very much mind people claiming benefits when they could work (or work in a different job or longer hours).

Please give an example of somebody who doesn't take taxpayers' money ie. doesn't use roads or healthcare, doesn't benefit (even if indirectly) from having police, army, border controls, environmental controls, a government and councils (consider the alternative), a justice system and agencies to issue passports, driving licences birth and death certificates, etc.

The above might not function perfectly, but we'd have a worse society if we didn't have them.

Germanshepherdsmum

There is a reason why criminal defence lawyers don’t earn much - they are paid by legal aid.

I'm well aware of that but does that mean they are mediocre? This government has made huge cuts in legal aid, meaning fewer people have access to justice, fewer young lawyers see this sort of work as attractive because it is increasingly seen as poorly paid. This is leading to long waits for cases to come to trial leaving everyone involved in a state of limbo. Pretty appalling in my view but fortunately not everyone is motivated by money.

Vintagewhine

So far people have given reasons why house prices have risen but not mentioned the increase in prices in relation to average income. In the 70s average house cost 4 times average wage, now it's 9 times. why is that a good thing rather than something we should try to change?

Because at 4 times average wage tax free they were an excellent investment. Maybe not as good now but far better than renting for those with high enough Income.

As has already been said, supply and demand. Home ownership has become such a holy grail here. In the past renting was the norm.