Expectations and obligations?

Kwest no one can afford it, that’s why the property of the person needing care has to be sold to pay the fees.
When all monies have run down to £23,000 the council take over paying for care, but if someone is in a 5* home they may have to move to a 3* because what the council pays will not cover the full cost, or the family have to agree to make a top up payment to cover the difference,
People paying independently for their own care are usually charged a lot more, which subsidises those being paid for by the LA.
I think we would all wish to be independent, but that’s not always possible.

We all do.

I am astonished at the ease that people show in saying to their children "Put me in a home". Have you seen what these places charge? On average for just an ordinary place £1,500.00 per week. How does anyone afford this? Even if you re-mortgage your home to pay for it, how long will the money last with fees like that? And then what? Do you just hope to be dead before the money runs out? The whole thing is terrifying. I want to be independent for the rest of my life.

As a child first my great aunt came to stay, she died. Then grand ma, she died. My other great aunt stayed in a boarding house for 4 ladies near her nephew and came to stay for a week on a regular schedule. She was 99 when she came to my wedding. This all seemed quite normal and desirable. Today families are scattered and boarding houses have become registered homes and businesses. We had my husbands father for 3 years living with us before he died and later my mother for 2 years before she died. All the time I had paid help. Now I have had a new knee and for the first time paid some one to shower me. We have to learn to use paid help in our own homes.

I would crawl over hot coals and a bed of nails to be able to help out with my grandchildren, but my help isn't wanted. I would also look after my parents, not because I feel obligated but because I feel it's the right thing to do.

I was was orphaned at 15 so have never had to look after my parents, I do look after two of grandchildren once a week, & would love to be able to do the same for my other two but they live in Europe. I would not expect or want my sons to give me personal care other than maybe a lightbulb change or the ilk

It's a very interesting topic and something I struggle with on a daily basis. My mother is 101 now and still lives on her own, does her own housework and a bit of gardening. She has lived on her own like this for 24yrs now.
I have a very difficult relationship with her as she is one of those very interferring kind of mothers, who is always criticising every decision I make in life and always has. I try my best to do as much as I can but I have a lot of mental health problems and now some physical ones too so I feel I should priorities my own health first.
My mother of course doesn't give a damn about anything going on in anyone's life but hers and is only concerned about who can sort out her medical appointments, take her for hospital appointments, phone her multiple times a day as 'that is what family do'.
She isn't short of money and could quite easily pay for someone to do the multiple jobs around her home and garden that she can't do but refuses to as she 'doesn't like strangers in the house'. I don't particularly like strangers in my house either but I wouldn't expect my other half or my grown up son to do them for me.
I have never seen my mother do anything for anyone else. She has no friends and I can see why! If she doesn't get her own way with things she threatens to kill herself and it gets really exhausting listening to it every day.
Although always complaining about being lonely she has never once offered even a cup of tea to my other half and I when we visit and we have to phone first to make sure it's convenient.
A few weeks ago we lost our much loved dog and I found it impossible to talk on the phone about it. I turned up uninvited at my mum's house, probably not my wisest move, still feeling extremely upset. My mother opened the door, poked her nose out and told me it wasn't a convenient time and shut the door in my face. She is then surprised when I feel upset.
Possibly I am not a good daughter but I don't know how someone who has never been a good mother can expect their children to drop everything for them.
If my mother decided to live in a retirement home it would make things so much easier for us, but she won't leave her current home so not much we can do. She would never go into a care home either but I can understand her reluctance as I have seen how bad they can be.

Poppyred

How do you propose to end your life painlessly biglouis?? Please tell.
I think most people would rather do that than be a burden to any one.

I don’t agree. I will put things into place so I’m NOT a burden, if you have children suicide lives with them forever. My biological father, my maternal grandfather and my sister-in-law all committed suicide, it’s a huge burden to deal with for those left behind!

I would never ever do that!

I think it depends entirely on the individuals.

In an ideal world people had a loving and supportive childhood with siblings they get along with, and would love to be able to have family to care for, and be cared by, but the reality is that families are complicated, and resources such as time and finances may be scarce. Distance also plays a part.

Also, not every family is/was a happy one either, and for mental health reasons it may be impossible to care for an elderly abusive parent.

Assumptions made in the past that the youngest daughter would do all the heavy lifting and be a carer for elderly parents need to be challenged.

biglouis, You have totally expressed my feelings. I have children and grandchildren, but hope to God I never have to ask for help. Just shoot me.

From looking at our family history before women started having 'proper careers' - it was unmarried daughters, any single women who were related and then any child free women including in-laws 😳 I'm sure there were plenty of exceptions but the bulk of care fell on women. Also, we had large mental asylums where people with dementia got housed so this sort of care, stressful, very demanding and expensive, was state run. We still need a national discussion about 'social care'....

DH and I cared for my DM and DD til they died, with the help of our own AC.

We also cared for MiL til we had no choice but to put her into residential care (DH was main carer, took early retirement, then in 2020 had a heart attack, she has dementia)

Neither of us have ANY expectations from any of our children or grandchildren to care for us.

If and when the time comes that we cannot do so ourselves, we will take whatever appropriate action we need.

We looked after our three grandchildren during the week and sometimes weekends when they stayed over until they were at school, then we had them during the school holidays and again weekends. We had days out and when it rained, the children baked, played games, painted etc. instead of being on tablets and tv games. Now I am alone, my husband died a few years ago, I don't see much of our family at all as they have moved away and our grandchildren have grown up but our family do come over and take me out now and again but I know for sure that if I needed them they would be there for me. I am happy in my own little way, have a lovely home, am comfortably off and thank god, in very good health at 81 years of age. We are in touch every other day via text messages and they ring me once a week. I have no complaints whatsoever and am so very grateful that we were able to look after our grandchildren from them being a few months old and also helped our family out and save them paying for childcare.

Yes, I would do it all over again. Such a special time having a massive input into our grandchildren's lives from a very early age. Hundred's of photos were taken of our grandechildren so they can show their children (our great grandchildren) what we all looked like when we were young.

There is a legal obligation to look after children till they are 18.
And I think a moral obligation to look out for parents and single childless aunts and uncles. This is what families are all about. I might have had not much more than Christmas card contact with Auntie A but if I hear there are problems I make sure things are taken care of. Friends and neighbours have no obligation. I feel I do.

Very interesting topic as I had this very discussion with my own daughter last night. She feels I did too much for my lovely Mum as she aged and in retrospect I agree. what I should have done was insist she had paid help for cleaning, shopping etc rather than exhausting myself working full time and doing it all for her too! The problem was, like many elderly people, she wanted to 'keep it in the family'. I now wish I'd had time to spend chatting with her, taking her out etc rather than cleaning! I on the other hand, as I've had health concerns over the past year, feel my daughter could probably do more!! She however has very clear boundaries (which I should have had) and puts her own very young family first. It's a thorny question especially for those of us with only children. Mind you, I am one of four siblings and I always did the most for my Mum anyway...

Oreo

janeainsworth

I would rather be in a care home than struggling by myself, not eating properly & unable to keep the house clean. I wouldn’t expect my AC to do those things for me either, and I wouldn’t expect them to accommodate me in their own homes.
Someone I know says her relationship with her mother improved immeasurably once her mother had moved into a home & she no longer had the worry of whether her mother was safe or not. And her mother was a lot happier too.

I totally agree.

I agree too.

I don't equate looking after parent to looking after grandchildren. I looked after my mum when she needed me because when I was a child and needed her, she had looked after me.

My expectations are pretty low regarding how my adult son will 'care' for me in my dotage. I'm 74, live alone with some mobility issues. He's visited here with his family for one day this year - on their way to meet friends for a holiday, and has just informed me that Christmas will be spent with his in-laws so I'm not to expect another visit this year ! Some hope of any help from him in the future!

Poppyred

How do you propose to end your life painlessly biglouis?? Please tell.
I think most people would rather do that than be a burden to any one.

Yes, absolutely agree, biglouis and Poppyred.

My partner and I moved 2 hours away from our family, mainly because housing was so much cheaper, but also because everytime there was a job we couldn't do, he would call on the kids, and they were getting resentful and I didn't want our relationship with them spoiled.
I now have a cleaner, a gardener, a handy man and a plumber all on call and all really nice people.

I have told my daughter that I do not want nor expect her to care for me. I do look after my dgs two days a week, but I enjoy it (mostly) and wouldn't think it was an obligation nor obligated her in the future. I do not have a good relationship with my mother and would not have provided care. It was made very clear that my brother was the golden boy and that has done him no favours over the years. Mum criticised me all her life and nothing I did was good enough. Indeed, just visiting her was enough of a trial. Now she is in hospital, she is generally pleasant but I'm quite sure most of the time, she doesn't know who I am.

pascal30

keepingquiet

Poppyred

How do you propose to end your life painlessly biglouis?? Please tell.
I think most people would rather do that than be a burden to any one.

No, most people wouldn't. How would I be a burden to anyone? I don't understand this thinking.
My mum only said this to me once and I told her never to say it again.
Did she consider me a burden when she was changing my nappy? No and neither did I see her as such when I was wiping her bottom in return.

I think that if you don't have anyone to look after you and you don't wish to go into a home that it would be a relief to know that assisted dying is a possibility..
It's all very well saying you could end your own life painlessly but having worked in MH I know that suicide attempts can bring even worse problems when they don't succeed...

No it wouldn't make me feel better at all. I would question the motives of someone who wants to help kill me.
The end of my life could be very painful- I have endured lots of pain in my life because it is part of being a feeling person.
There have been a few times in my life when I was confused about whether I might be better off dead, but they were few and thankfully did not last long.
Now, as I get older I want to mamximise both my physical and mental health as much as I can for as long as I can. When I can no longer do this the last thing I would want now, as a sane person, would be to think about asking for someone to end my life.
I worry about the encroachment of this kind of thinking in society, that life is something we should have absolute control over when we clearly don't.
We should be encouraging people not to end their lives, not helping them to do it.

I’m my mothers carer, she’s 89 very frail and housebound. She lives in a retirement flat , and is able to do personal care and to cook for herself . I’m there 3 days a week and do her shopping, housework, laundry and home admin . And I’m obviously company for her . It falls to me as I’m local and my siblings are 3 and 6 hours drive away. I’m happy to be her carer , I don’t feel it’s an obligation. I do it because I love her . I also value this time I’ve had with her as I’ve got to know her as a person not just my mum and she’s got to know me as a person not just a daughter .
Being her carer has also meant my AC have a very close relationship with their grandmother.
I don’t know what will happen if she develops dementia or can’t do personal care and whether she needs to go into a home .

I was under no obligation to help with my GC, for the very good reason that both sons had moved south to work and lived with their families 150 miles away - and I worked and had other obligations. When I retired my sons thought it would be better for me to live closer to them and now I do, in my own retirement flat where I am independent. They don't have to look after me, but I do enjoy their company.

I have had the conversation with my daughter and have told her to put me into a home if I can not look after myself.

Those that say they would not go into a home or will end their life may not have the choice , if you have a stroke and lose capability it will not be up to you.