Heating Allowance in Europe

I think Starmer and Reeves should have aligned UK pensioners with this, and changed the rules if they really must at the same time as anyone living in the EU.At least that would have given pensioners here more notice.

Oreo

NotSpaghetti

The article in The Telegraph re the fact that this will STILL be paid to pensioners living in Europe , regardless !

... is clearly wrong then.

How is it wrong?
The WFA will still be paid to those pensioners living in most EU countries this Winter.
Next year, maybe not, we don’t know as yet but for sure this year they will receive it.

Pensioners in most countries in Europe is not the same as most pensioners in Europe! I don't see the Telegraph article explaining this clearly. Surely it must be obvious that if you take out Spain and France you won't have a huge number left.
I don't understand why anyone would begrudge the WFA to a UK pensioner living on a low income in a country with cold winters.

I don’t begrudge it at all Mamie and French Winters and Spanish Winters, depending on where you are can be harsh.

Oreo

I don’t begrudge it at all Mamie and French Winters and Spanish Winters, depending on where you are can be harsh.

This is true. We had our first wood delivery today. 😂

Mamie
I have been accused of fleecing the UK with my half basic pension because I have half of a basic one in France.

janeainsworth

^The deep divisions in society are as much the fault of the media as any obnoxious individual spreading fake news on social media^

Perhaps if children were taught to think critically they would be more cynical & less influenced by & accepting of what they read, hear & see in both mainstream media and on the internet.
Placing all the blame for division & disruption in society today on the media & obnoxious people is denying that individuals have any personal responsibility for their opinions & actions.

You won't draw any counter-argument from me against the principle of personal responsibility.

Clearly, for some individuals it is not an essential part of their make up though, is it? Nor the will or ability for critical-thinking.

These lengthy prison sentences are presumably supposed to make the thugs and assorted rioters realise that their choices have consequences - that you can't attack the police with bricks or lumps of concrete, or set fire to an asylum hostel blocking the exit with wheelie-bins.

So many of those already sentenced have previous convictions, including violent offences. Frankly I'd like to dump them all on a desert island with some tents and food-drops and let them get on with it and build their own society, but that's not going to happen - they walk among us, they work, have families, houses, but let's not pretend that there is not a whole swathe of people who feel constantly victimised or insulted by injustices, either real or perceived, and are ready almost at the drop of a hat to rebel, riot or commit acts of violence. They have no sense of personal responsibility otherwise they wouldn't do what they do.

High-profile figures, organisations, political parties, SM-site owners (like Musk), the media - they are all aware of these types of people and well aware that they can, to be blunt, rouse the rabble with gossip, speculation, half-truths, lies, and mis-information and fake-news.

Most of us just become angry or resentful when we read posts like this original one, and decide to investigate further, as rational people - and then discover that the issue is not quite the way it's presented and so discuss it back and forth. And that's the end of it.

But it's wrong and immoral IMO to give out misleading statements, it creates resentment where maybe none is justified, and it gives those who are like human powder kegs just waiting to 'go off' on the next rampage, an excuse to do it. Because obviously they have no critical-thinking skills nor a sense of responsibility. But they create awful divisions among the rest of us, cost the nation £millions probably via the justice system and the cost of their incarceration, benefits possibly, not to mention the effect on their families' lives.

I don't know what the actual answer is - how do you make irresponsible people become responsible citizens, how do you teach critical-thinking to those whose whole lives have been shaped and moulded by prejudice, bigotry, and half-baked political conspiracy theories? I hope their sentences do make them mull over their lives and make them think again before they go on the rampage, and it not be just another conviction to add to their already too-long list of convictions. But the media and social-media sites propagandising lies and misinformation will not help one bit to rehabilitate those already carrying a chip on their shoulder.

Thank you for that Dickens. Really profound and interesting.
France is very far from perfect, but one of the things I like about living here is how the values of the Republic still underpin much of French life. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity (and the right to protest) are taught in schools and expected of French citizens. You are obliged to stop at the scene of a car accident or to help people in distress. This is not to say that anti-social behaviour doesn't exist, it certainly does, but most people do know why it is wrong.
Despite flirting with voting for the far right it is fundamentally a socialist country, taxation and particularly social security contributions are high, but in return the state looks after you.
The gap between rich and poor is far smaller than in the UK.

Good post Dickens.

Mamie

Oreo

I don’t begrudge it at all Mamie and French Winters and Spanish Winters, depending on where you are can be harsh.

This is true. We had our first wood delivery today. 😂

I can beat you on that. We had our delivery at the end of June. Rather earlier than usual but the farmer was ready to deliver.

In my opinion, WFA should never have been paid to anyone living outside the UK.

The WFA, maddyone is paid to British Pensioners as part of their State Pensions. I worked all my life and paid into the system until retirement. Why would anyone drawing a State Pension be interested in your narrow-minded nonsense? Living outside the UK? What difference does that make? Have you cornered the market in cold winters? Are you in charge of where people choose to live? Can you not bear to think that anyone might want to open their minds a little and live in another country? You'd probably be pleased to put a stop to anyone living outside of the UK drawing their rightful State Pensions as well. If only you could.
Happily the State Pensions of British residents of Spain and France are safe, though (if you've read this thread) you'll have seen that the WFA is no longer available to the many British pensioners who DO have the freedom to live where they choose and are resident in Spain or France. This is because in spite of the winters in many parts of France and Spain being very hard, the British Government persuaded an East Anglian University who compiled the 'figures' for their European temperatures to re-do the figures to include numerous countries such as Réunion and Martinique which boosted the winter temperature chart overall and gave them a fraudulent reason to refuse any further rightful claims for the allowance. Hopefully this information will bring a little cheer to your winter days.

Thank you Dickens.

There you go. The Telegraph producing their usual rubbish. Anything they can dig or make up that is anti Labour.

Dickens I agree there are many disaffected people out there and that has contributed to the rise of populism both in Britain and America. I doubt though, that Keir Starmer & Rachel Reeves’ New Austerity policies are going to do anything to change this. People need hope, not the doom & gloom that’s currently being promulgated.

Grandmafrench you are right that the WFA was introduced as part of the State Pension back in 1997 and that’s one reason why it should be maintained as a universal benefit.
I currently donate £20 per month to our local food bank, but would feel quite justified in cancelling the direct debit. (I won’t, though).

Grandmafrench - I'm not sure that it's paid as part of their pension - if that was true it would sit in your account if you had deferred your State Pension.

What actually happens is that the winter fuel allowance needs to be claimed if you’ve deferred. So logically it's triggered by payment of your pension but it's not actually part of it.

I have no idea if you have been able in the past to accumulate it if you want to. I've not heard anything about that.

Well said, janeainsworth and Dickens

Unfortunately, I doubt that critical thinking can be taught, even thinking rationally is beyond some as was witnessed in the recent riots. It appears that they think with their fists first.

I do think withdrawal of the WFA should have been done in stages rather than a sudden withdrawal for all who did not meet the criteria.
There is over £2 billion pa in unclaimed Pension Credit as about one third of those eligible do not claim it.

Exactly as I posted in my OP

GrannyGravy13

#Labourlies

Well it isn't is it. The deal was written into the Brexit agreement by the Conservative government and there is absolutely nothing this government can do about it. It will end in April of next year anyway.

janeainsworth

^The deep divisions in society are as much the fault of the media as any obnoxious individual spreading fake news on social media^

Perhaps if children were taught to think critically they would be more cynical & less influenced by & accepting of what they read, hear & see in both mainstream media and on the internet.
Placing all the blame for division & disruption in society today on the media & obnoxious people is denying that individuals have any personal responsibility for their opinions & actions.

I do agree, but it’s not children voting for Reform, rioting and spreading misinformation!!

Cossy I do agree, but it’s not children voting for Reform, rioting and spreading misinformation!!

No, they’re not voting for Reform, but children as young as 13 are being prosecuted for participating in the riots. Their parents are either ignorant of what their children are doing at night, or complicit in their behaviour.
And underage children are certainly competent users of the internet and although they are now taught about online safety in schools, it doesn’t seem to be enough. Perhaps it needs to be framed within a wider moral compass.

Thanks GrsndmaFrench

janeainsworth

Dickens I agree there are many disaffected people out there and that has contributed to the rise of populism both in Britain and America. I doubt though, that Keir Starmer & Rachel Reeves’ New Austerity policies are going to do anything to change this. People need hope, not the doom & gloom that’s currently being promulgated.

I entirely agree.

Starmer warning that "things will get worse before they get better" is - as you've aptly called it - New Austerity.

Of course, we have to wait for the Budget for the precise details, but those 'warning shots' are meant to prepare us for yet more hard times.

What we really needed was a government with 'revolutionary' ideas elected for that reason. But Starmer chose, inevitably I suppose, to appease those who are diametrically opposed economically with the result that we are, basically, going to continue with more of the same. In other words, Jam - Tomorrow.

maddyone

In my opinion, WFA should never have been paid to anyone living outside the UK.

As has already been said those of us living in France Spain do not get the WFA because of the average temperature in those two countries.

We have paid our taxes and NIC just the same as you have. I'm still working (aged 77) and paying CT in the UK so I'm contributing towards your WFA.

If you follow the UK's premise that our average temperature is too high to pay us the WFA then perhaps the same logic should be applied to those in the UK - a lower payment for those living in the south and an higher amount to those living in the north of England and Scotland.

It is just your opinion that those not living in the UK should not receive the WFA but you do not give a reason.

Well analysed and expressed in your original post, Dickens. Also thanks are due to Mamie who correctly pointed out that critical thinking is taught in schools but, as is quite evident, all that is taught does not stick or our society would be a whole lot healthier.
I believe profoundly that the UK education system has lost its way with so many changing demands made on it by successive ideologically motivated governments BUT it should not be the scapegoat for all societal ills. I do wonder at the many people who choose to blame the education system and teachers for all the problems we face - such a cheap and uninformed blame game.

Children can be taught all kinds of lessons in schools but if they have parents who lack any morals or standards then they are more likely (but not always) to follow their example.