Neighbours and their child

With a background knowledge about social services etc, although a few years ago, I think that as soon as you contact anyone with concerns about the family social services will immediately become involved.

Difficult situation. When I was training as a nursery nurse I was in placement at a local primary school where my neighbour's children attended. All the neighbours knew she went out and locked children in the house. School reported her to social services when they called the house one day, one of the children answered and said Mummy was out. Of course Mummy immediately blamed me for reporting her!!.
Life became very difficult, eventually we moved.

JaniePB

As a still practising ISW, ex local autority child protection lead, I would say document to be clear about what you have heard and when. Observation of the child's reactions and the parents' response to your concerns.

Then complete the online referral with these details. There will be ongoing psychological harm to the child given what you say, frightened of the very people who are supposed to protect them. The younger the child the more life changing is the harm.

Children's services will not wade in unless there is a Police incident. They will initially gather additional multiagency information, such as parental histories, police files, school concerns and any other historical child care records. Then, if there is reason to investigate further, agencies will agree a joint approach.

Thank you very much. I’ll monitor and then report.

I’ve done this before with another family for slightly different reasons, twice in fact with two different cases, both times social services were very helpful (I phoned, both were safeguarding incidents)

Obviously they couldn’t discuss the cases but they did make me aware in both cases that both families were known to them!

I just could not live with myself if any serious or fatal harm came to this child.

Wyllow3

I also thought ringing the NSPCC for advice as a first step might be helpful cossy.

Also definitely keep a record of incidents and if possible sound record them.

Great idea, thank you

SueDonim

Is the partner the child’s birth father or a stepfather? That could also have a bearing on what’s going on. Very difficult for you, that’s for sure.

Both parents biological

GrannyGravy13

Iam64

Why the police and not Chuldren’s Services who are the lead agency in these difficult situations

If there is an incident with shouting and swearing around the child, calling 999 will be immediate, they have to attend a domestic with child/ren involved.

Would police attend if you told them you had heard them shouting and swearing at their child? I doubt it.
Does the child appear well cared for, clean and well fed?
I agree that a call to NSPCC for advice could be helpful for you.

We recently moved in to a flat and have foreign neighbours. The husband speaks reasonably good English but neither the wife nor the little boy do. The child who is around 4 years old is so noisy. If he's not singing and shouting he is screaming and throwing a strop. When he runs around which is most of the time it is like we are living next door to an elephant. He is more often than not up until gone midnight, a few times it has been nearer 2am when he has stopped running around and screaming. A couple of weeks ago I heard the neighbour on the other side of the couple knock on the door and ask the husband if they could do something about the child making so much noise late at night. His girlfriend is due to have a baby and hasn't been well. The noise in to the early hours has stopped her from being able to get her sleep. It quietened down for a few nights but now it is back. It doesn't help that the child barely ever leaves the flat which is probably why he has so much energy. It's difficult to know what to do when you live in such close proximity. Things would almost certainly become awkward if we were to complain.

I also thought ringing the NSPCC for advice as a first step might be helpful cossy.

Also definitely keep a record of incidents and if possible sound record them.

As a still practising ISW, ex local autority child protection lead, I would say document to be clear about what you have heard and when. Observation of the child's reactions and the parents' response to your concerns.

Then complete the online referral with these details. There will be ongoing psychological harm to the child given what you say, frightened of the very people who are supposed to protect them. The younger the child the more life changing is the harm.

Children's services will not wade in unless there is a Police incident. They will initially gather additional multiagency information, such as parental histories, police files, school concerns and any other historical child care records. Then, if there is reason to investigate further, agencies will agree a joint approach.

What @silverlining48 says!!! Do not hesitate to contact NSPCC. They’ll advise.
The family is obviously unhappy and it’s seriously affecting the little one.
Even if you are mistaken, isn’t a child’s wellbeing worth more?
Not all abuse causes bruises.

Iam64

Why the police and not Chuldren’s Services who are the lead agency in these difficult situations

If there is an incident with shouting and swearing around the child, calling 999 will be immediate, they have to attend a domestic with child/ren involved.

Why the police and not Chuldren’s Services who are the lead agency in these difficult situations

I would contact the police with your concerns and an itemised timescale of when these incidents have occurred, alternatively…

If there is a loud screaming match call 999 sighting a domestic incident with a young child involved.

Susiewong65

I agree about contacting the school.
Ask to speak to the safeguarding lead and tell them your concerns.
They will log this on their internal systems as it probably won’t be long before this poor child comes to their attention!

Have you not read the previous comments.?
The school cannot discuss pupils with people who are not the child's parent or guardian, for a multitude of reasons.

I agree about contacting the school.
Ask to speak to the safeguarding lead and tell them your concerns.
They will log this on their internal systems as it probably won’t be long before this poor child comes to their attention!

This is a safegaurding issue. I personally would contact the school, ask to speak to someone who works in the Safegaurding/Pastoral Team ,and raise your concerns.
Haveing just retired from working as an Teaching Assistant in a Primary School,there are so many children these days that are suffering with all sorts of problems in homelife.
Usually problems they have at home,show in their behaviour at school.
Its usually a cry for help.
Pastoral teams are specially trained how to speak to a child without asking a direct question.
If they cant help or advise ,at least you have raised your concerns and they are aware.

If you had called my school, we would suggest that you phone Social Services and that we would not be able to discuss the situation with you, due to data protection or that it may be malicious. (Not saying you are.)

However, we would ourselves alert Social Services that there were concerns.
The school are probably already aware of concerns.

Cossy you could email the school, describe what you and your partner are hearing and witnessing on a regular basis, and that you are concerned for the little boy.

No, they won't be able to discuss anything with you, and you could acknowledge that you don't expect them to, but it will help them build a bigger picture.
It would also be a record of your concern.

"Safeguarding is everyone's concern" is a repeated quote from our childminding training courses.

You might think about contacting the NSPCC in the first instance and ask to remain anonymous. They would then look into it and if necessary pass it over to SS.

Cossy

I’ve messaged her today and casually asked if all is ok and how did child settle in school. I’ll keep a close eye and ear on them all.

Could you try to record the shouting on your phone, would that be possible.

Worrying situation for you cossy. Your suggestion is mum wasn’t brought up
With shouting or verbal abuse.
No point phoning school, as marydoll points out it isn’t their role and you’d be advised to speak to children’s services
Make a brief note of your concerns, bullet points with timescales if you can. Reading this may help you decide whether to refer and exactly what you’re telling them. It could also help you decide whether to refer now or keep a log with dates etc then refer with insistence your details are confidential
You could phone the nspcc to discuss - they don’t investigate and would refer to children’s services with your knowledge if that seemed appropriate

JdotJ

You'll never forgive yourself if you don't "interfere"
I always think if parents are that abusive to the child when others can hear it, then what are they like when others can't 🤔

I agree.
If I was you Cossy I would def speak to SS.They may do nothing of course but if they were at least to speak to this child’s parents it could make them more careful in future about the shouting.Poor little kid my heart bleeds for all who are treated this way by vile parents.😠

Is the partner the child’s birth father or a stepfather? That could also have a bearing on what’s going on. Very difficult for you, that’s for sure.

I’ve messaged her today and casually asked if all is ok and how did child settle in school. I’ll keep a close eye and ear on them all.

Keep a note of incidents - it would be helpful if a pattern could be identified.
Phone the school and ask to speak with the family/welfare worker. Phone social services and keep a note of who you speak to.
Then keep noting incidents.

Can you chat with them over the garden fence as a way of building a relationship before you leap in with voicing your concerns to them directly?
I certainly would not involve her parents.

Tricky situation, but child comes first.

Cossy

JdotJ

Could you perhaps find out the school that the child has just started at and give them a ring with your concerns. They can monitor the child in Reception class as to anything said about home life.

He’s quite behind in his his speech, I know which school he’s started and I don’t want to interfere but some of the things I’ve heard them both say to him are a bit worrying. They both swear a lot, quite ferociously and when having a row with the downstairs neighbour outside in the garden she repeatedly called him a C**t very loudly, we all heard!

Verbal abuse is abuse, and particularly shocking when aimed at an innocent child. You are right to be concerned Cossy. If I were you I would ring Social Services, I haven't a clue how these things are handled but would simply describe exactly what you have witnessed, and perhaps your partner could speak to them as well to corroborate what you have said.
The thing is I imagine most of us would balk at having to report any parent to Social Services, many wouldn't want to get involved, but what if by intervening you are saving a child.
Wishing you well with this. Is definitely a difficult situation you are facing.
xx