Why should banks have to refund?

I'm too stingy to part with money easily.
I hope!!!

MissAdventure

Yes, I thought it was, too.
So heartless.
As I say, I'm sure people might pay up, too, thinking they've crossed something else off the list that's to be sorted when someone dies.

I think that is a fairly easy one to fall for, so many bits of admin to do at a difficult time. Well done you for not falling for it.

I think it is a rare person who looks good in a mugshot. I used to work in a police station so I've seen lots of them. Even Hugh Grant didn't look great in his mugshot.

What do intelligent eyes look like CariadAgain?
I obviously have dim ones.

I can't remember, Mt61.

I think I checked online, because I knew someone's debts died with them anyway, then found a few stories from victims that were virtually the same.

Always utilities, small amounts, and following the same script.

Yes, I thought it was, too.
So heartless.
As I say, I'm sure people might pay up, too, thinking they've crossed something else off the list that's to be sorted when someone dies.

MissAdventure

I had a phone call after my daughter died, from a "solicitor" who had been instructed to act on behalf of the water services, because there was money owing.

He was very pleasant, full of apologies, and all the rest of it.

It was a scam, and I was told that these people look at obituaries, and target relatives.

If it had been my mum, she would have paid, I'm sure, as she hated owing money, they were very believable, and it was only a small amount.

That is a particularly vile scam.

Seajaye

There is an old saying that a fool and his. Money are easily parted. I imagine everyone who has been scammed would like their money back, and regrets their foolishness but it just means someone else pays for their foolishness including those who may have far less in the first place. I think if the bank have warned the person, then it's I reasonable to expect the bank to pay. More effort should be made by the police to catch the perpetrator when money has been obtained by deception but usually they have long since vanished before the victim reports them.

So many of the scamsters are based overseas anyway.

MissAdventure

I had a phone call after my daughter died, from a "solicitor" who had been instructed to act on behalf of the water services, because there was money owing.

He was very pleasant, full of apologies, and all the rest of it.

It was a scam, and I was told that these people look at obituaries, and target relatives.

If it had been my mum, she would have paid, I'm sure, as she hated owing money, they were very believable, and it was only a small amount.

How did you realise it was a scam?

I had a phone call after my daughter died, from a "solicitor" who had been instructed to act on behalf of the water services, because there was money owing.

He was very pleasant, full of apologies, and all the rest of it.

It was a scam, and I was told that these people look at obituaries, and target relatives.

If it had been my mum, she would have paid, I'm sure, as she hated owing money, they were very believable, and it was only a small amount.

I am surprised at my aunt, I was putting something in her bin, there was repeat script, name, address, dob, NHS no 😩 I took it home & shredded

Yep happened to my friend who’s a teacher, gave a bloke who she never met six grand. Was a total scam!
Anyway bank gave her £2000 & she was going to put a letter forward stating she had MH.. the bank has refused.
Now when she makes a payment they send her a note, “ is this person genuine?
She said, do they think I am daft? Well yes 😩

It is difficult to "be on the alert" all the darn time in case a person is a thief, rather than a normal person.

It isn't a question of being on the alert all the time, in case someone is a thief.

It is just, as in the past, being alert to suspicious approaches. In the past, it would be the man offering to tarmac your drive, for £50, - and wanting to do it now. Or someon offering you something dirt cheap, off the back of a lorry. You just use your common sense.

loopyloo

And I don't think the bank does have to refund it as it had given so many warnings.

Obviously, the bank in question either does not have to refund the entire amount, as they have only paid out a smaller amount, or else they are willing to make a test case of it.

In the circumstances, I do not think we can expect a bank should have to reimburse the full amount, as they had told the client that they suspected a scam more than once and asked if she really intended that the money should be transferred.

Presumably, the bank can prove that these enquires were made by them, and that the client insisted that the transfers should go through.

Online banking is still fairly new and it always takes time for the law to catch up whenever significant changes of this kind are made.

At one time, not so long ago, if you paid for an airline ticket or a holiday and the company went bust before your journey or holiday, that was that - you had lost your money. Today, if you have paid by Master card rather than Visa you are re-imbursed for air tickets, and there may even be a fund that re-imburses you in the case of a travel agency or package holiday or hotel failing.

Presumably, bankers will manage to protect themselves by law in the course of the next couple of years from customers who ignore their advice regarding transferring large sums of money to dubious firms or acquaintances.

Sadly, there is nothing new in lonely women, looking for a husband, being done out of their savings. Men too have been known to fall for a pretty girl or widow's hard-luck story.

In ancient Rome, merchants put up a sign on their stalls: caveat emptor - which being translated means "Let the buyer beware" .in other words check the article for faults before you hand over your money.

Like me, you probably rememember your grandmothers inspecting cloth very carefully before buying it, or turning a garment inside out to inspect the seams.

Jockytaff

Sarnia.
I find it incredible that someone could fall prey to the monsters that perpetrate these scams especially now that there is so much media attention on them. Simply put, do not send money to someone you have never met!

My aunt lost thousands, she had dementia and we had to intervene. Some people are just vulnerable.

Dickens - LOL.

My own take on these thieves = well the one I knew personally recently (ie lives in my small town) sort of edged his way in gradually (ie recommended by a friend to do a paid little job for me - which turned into a noticeable number of paid little jobs) is someone that I can see in hindsight as totally and completely self-focused.

The expressions in his eyes (in hindsight), his great concern for his own welfare, he "bigged himself up".....basically he was not just the only person "in his world" (with the possible exception of a mother he talked about, but I never encountered her) - but he was the only one on the planet that mattered it seemed (according to him).

I'm guessing thieves are often narcissists? probably not very bright (all the ones I've ever encountered were dim to average level of intelligence and probably veering towards dim) - ie they don't think through their actions to realise "One day I'm going to be caught and punished for this".

Any I've met personally certainly never ever have intelligent eyes or say anything remotely intelligent. (Though maybe more intelligent ones do exist - but they focus on more sophisticated scams that they have enough brainpower to work out??). Their mind revolves purely and simply around themselves and themselves only basically from what I can see.

I've noticed the dim eyes too on any photos/expose tv programmes about the foreign ones - whether standard thieves or romance scammers. But that doesn't help one judge if they're not face-to-face with oneself.....

Pammie1

In these cases I think the bank is entitled not to pay up at all. How anyone can simply give away this amount of money is absolutely beyond me. At some point you have to take personal responsibility and it’s not as though these scams haven’t been highlighted over and over. Unless there is a safeguarding concern where the bank are aware of a medical problem such as dementia etc, and haven’t followed procedure, the responsibility should be on the person.

I became aware of another possible scam this morning. Received an email from British Gas to say that they were refunding a substantial amount of credit on my energy account and increasing the direct debit by quite a lot. I don’t know about anyone else but that just didn’t make any sense to me, because the credit is enough to cover my bills until end of year review in May with no adjustments necessary.

I rang BG and they said they have no record of any email being sent today and the last communication from them was 5 November. They asked me to screenshot the email and send it to them so they could investigate, and they confirmed that the credit would stay on the account and the direct debit would remain the same - no plans to adjust either.

On looking back at the email, if it’s a scam, it’s a very scary one because the amount of credit was correct, as were the direct debit details - gas and electricity account numbers were also correct. There was a link at the bottom of the email to use if I wanted everything to remain the same - which I didn’t click. Thankfully I logged into my account first to check the details and then contacted BG direct. If anyone is with BG I’d be interested to hear if you’ve had anything similar.

Having been offered a 4 figure refund by BG when we were only just in credit nothing surprises me with them. I moved to Octopus and they sorted it out for me. I really didn't want to get into a mess with the gas/electric so didn't want a refund I'm not due.

If the scams didn't work, then it wouldn't be worth the scammers time and effort.

The fact that they carry on is proof that more than a few get taken in; they're probably ashamed of being judged, so they stay quiet.

Bad enough feeling like a fool, without every Tom, Dick and Harry queuing up to call you one.

We've been scammed in several different foreign 'commercial' circumstances. All on holiday, all in foreign countries. Amounts always refunded. Do we feel we did anything wrong? No. Scams change constantly.

Banks shouldn't refund on 'romance' scams - rather a waste of money. Costs Banks pass on to all customers, in the end.

I think the 'romance' scam and the 'commercial' scams are two separate issues.

As Doodledog pointed out, the romance-scams are very sad. And she's right, human-nature is such, it seems, that we do believe we are unique when we meet someone 'special' - we romanticise the ordinary into something exceptional. If this happens at a time when 'life' has been hard or difficult, it's easy enough to believe - through this rosy glow - that the future is going to be wonderful.

Not sure what can be done about it though. If warnings don't deter the person, or force them to question their own judgement or perceptions - what the heck can you do?

As for the 'commercial' scammers - I'm with CariadAgain - I'd also press the button to jettison them from earth. In fact, I'd lasso the romance-scammers in with them.

They sit behind a computer, having made it their aim to wreck people's lives, without a shred of decency or care for anything or anyone, just their own all-engrossing need to profit from other's misery. Who needs these people in society?

It would be so nice if we could find a habitable planet, or an totally isolated desert-island where we could shove these parasites together with the basics for survival - and let them all feed off, thieve, and trick each other.

Sarnia.
I find it incredible that someone could fall prey to the monsters that perpetrate these scams especially now that there is so much media attention on them. Simply put, do not send money to someone you have never met!

Thank you for the Land Registry tip petra I wasn’t aware of it and have now done one for our house.

I had several phone calls from someone telling me someone from my household gad entered a competition and as I am the only one in my household I knew that was a scam.

About 18 months ago, I had a call purporting to be from my daughter. We exchanged a few text messages and then it suddenly hit me that this was probably a scam.
I asked “her” for the name of her two brothers…. obviously, she did not have a clue, call soon ended..

No. I don’t think banks should be held responsible for their customers who are daft enough to send money to complete strangers who they haven’t even met. Whenever I’ve made payment to someone new, the bank asks me questions about whether I trust/know the person and how I got their bank details before I can proceed.