EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

Luminance

People need the toilet, they must evacuate their waste. Ideally in comfort and safety. Do we agree?

100% agree. Women need women only spaces to do so safely and with dignity. That means keeping men, all men, out. Evacuate your waste in a facility that matches your birth sex or use one that accepts both sexes.

People need the toilet, they must evacuate their waste. Ideally in comfort and safety. Do we agree?

However I don't see the discussion around enabling trans people to have facilities to use as having much to do with that issue when it will benefit women far more so I just do not know why anything else has relevance.

??

The discussion about trans people in general, the courts have sorted that issue out have they not? I would expect to see biological women protected in sports and other things now. I can see that might need some discussion should that not materialise. However I don't see the discussion around enabling trans people to have facilities to use as having much to do with that issue when it will benefit women far more so I just do not know why anything else has relevance.

Wonderful Luminance
We’ve been here before.

I am engaging in a discussion about toilets. I am sure there are others interested in diversifying the conversation but I'm not interested in doing that on this thread.

You don’t have to answer. Luminance.
You can continue with the ^garbled word salad posts.

You have read all the pros and cons of sorting out the issues with women’s safe spaces, not just toilets.

If men in whatever guise respect the rule no males in female safe spaces
there isn’t a problem.

At the moment we still have men in whatever guise continue to say that they have a right to pretend they’re women and we have females who support that right directly, or by refusing to admit to say that you can’t change sex.

And there is the problem. When you (or others) refuse to acknowledge that sex is binary and immutable and that men can never be women,
Either anyone can’t bring themselves to say that, or don’t want to say it because they prefer to believe the lie that you can change sex.

I read today that
The only essential requisition for being a transwoman is to be male.
If you’re a TW use male or unisex toilets.

Women can’t be Transwomen, because they’re female.

I don't feel I should have to answer, I am simply having a conversation about toilet facilities and how the planned changes would impact women posting here in a positive way like the OP. Resolving the issue of trans people in women's toilets is just a byproduct it seems if we listen to women on this thread.

What might happen is that the increasingly garbled word salad posts might stop.

As it is, trying to find ‘solutions’ over and above the very simple legal one (ie people using the facilities for their sex) is pointless - the solution is there in law. If obeying the law causes problems for transpeople (which it might), it is up to them to decide what they want to do. But they can no longer compel others to pretend that they have become women, because they have not.

Is this some sort of initiation? What would happen should I agree or not agree exactly?

Weird!
Is that the sort of world you live in, Luminance, with initiation rites? Explains a lot.

It doesn’t exist on GN anyway.

Re Rosie51’s question;
Actually, by
not answering,
or feeling unable to answer,
or being unwilling to answer
such a basic question,
you will have answered, whether you post your answer or not.

What would happen if you answered?

You would clarify that you do agree that sex is determined at conception and is immutable? Therefore transwomen are men, will always be men and can never be biological women.
Or
You would clarify that you don’t agree that sex is determined at conception and is immutable.
Therefore you don’t agree that transwomen are not women, will always be men and can never be biological women.

What do you expect to happen?

What do you want to happen?

Rosie51

Luminance You answer my question (posted before yours) and I'll answer yours. Do you agree sex is determined at conception and is immutable? Therefore transwomen are men, will always be men and can never be biological women?

Is this some sort of initiation? What would happen should I agree or not agree exactly?

Luminance You answer my question (posted before yours) and I'll answer yours. Do you agree sex is determined at conception and is immutable? Therefore transwomen are men, will always be men and can never be biological women?

The comments I replied to are quite recent. I have no problem at all with a subject deviating though, what would you like the subject to become Rosie51?

Oh my word, how long have you been on GN? Threads move 'off title' so regularly that to comment on deviation is usually to invite an avalanche of reminders that nothing, including GN threads, is static.

I do have to wonder if you remember the thread we are posting under and perhaps you should press "Show OP" because I have, in fact, stayed on topic the entire length of the thread and responded to others doing the same.

Eh? I was merely pointing out that virtually every point you make in favour of including men into women's spaces has already been debated and denied by most women on these boards. Who was the troll, it would be good if you could name the username they posted under? You do seem to be coming up with problems and solutions, none of which mean keeping men in all their guises out of women's spaces. Perhaps you could confirm and clarify that you agree sex is fixed at conception and is immutable and is totally different to the nebulous idea of 'gender identity'.

Well, I don't know what responsibility I would have for other posters or banned ones. A troll here once said I was someone else which caused all sorts of issues even though it was a troll saying it and Gransnet was able to verify my account here. I was simply responding to other women on this thread who didn't seem to mind my doing so and thought their comments worth consideration. As this site is populated by many people who are welcome to share many different things I would assume it is acceptable to reply and not have the rather tiresome issue of people saying I have said things I have not simply because someone else I do not know did once.

Luminance there used to be a poster who, before she got banned, always posted how she was happy for transwomen to sit beside her, share single sex spaces blah blah blah. Her response was always a compromise away from just single sex spaces. She thought there was 'evidence' that transness was scientifically provable or would be very soon as evidenced by pathetic unscientific websites, mostly populated by people with skin in the game. It's not surprising therefore that posters find your wanting to fix every possible problem for men (whether they identify as such or not) somewhat 'interesting', if not just infantilising of men. The only men who will have problems with the clarification of the existing laws are those that sought to evade them.

The bottom line though, is that for many women their needs involve the right to privacy dignity and safety when vulnerable. Trying to find loopholes or ways to make that work for men is not going to fly.

If you do agree that single sex spaces are the way ahead (as recommended by law) there is nothing for you to sort out for us. We have already had that right restored, as we made our concerns clear and were understood by those in a position to do something about it.

I was responding to other women commenting their needs and fears on this thread whom I replied to direct in some instances. Perhaps I can make that more clear in future. I will take it into consideration.

Luminance

Carlotta I am sorry but I just don't know what else to say.

For goodness sake.

If you agree that there should bee separate sex facilities, what have you been talking about for pages and pages? Women don't need better facilities - just ones without men in them. It's really simple.

Carlotta I am sorry but I just don't know what else to say.

I am rather at a loss to understand

Yup, I've noticed. .

It did not need any fixing, I am speaking of biological women using facilities. Please do enlighten me on what the problem is with what I am saying because I am rather at a loss to understand.

Better facilities for women, are facilities without men. There. Fixed that for you.