EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets

Luminance

We were shown a picture earlier in the thread of a trans man. So now could not any man self identify "I am biologically a woman" and not have to dress any differently to walk into a women's space?

Well they won't get to go on a women's hospital ward, prison, or refuge for starters. This argument is the one so beloved by TRAs, but women's hips don't lie and neither do men's shapes, which will be a good indication. Women will have to asert themselves and challenge these men when it's safe to do so.

Luminance

Who caused the issue of men in female safe spaces?

Well men clearly, in all their guises.

We were shown a picture earlier in the thread of a trans man. So now could not any man self identify "I am biologically a woman" and not have to dress any differently to walk into a women's space?

Actually Rosie51 you’re right. I’ve just come in from the gym and didn’t give sufficient thought to the aspect you mention.
Were you the only woman using the ladies' loo at the time? I'm not happy for any woman to consent on behalf of others. It's like when one person lets someone jump the queue without consulting everybody who will be affected.

Who caused the issue of men in female safe spaces?

Well said Doodledog Let's not forget what sex is doing virtually all these attacks, both on women and men....men! How many women are in prison for physical attacks on other women let alone men? I'll wager it's a very small number, likely increased of late by recording transwomen's crimes as committed by women.

Chardy I've been at the train station after a football match when the queue for gents is ridiculous, and some of the men have asked if they can use the ladies' loo. No problem Were you the only woman using the ladies' loo at the time? I'm not happy for any woman to consent on behalf of others. It's like when one person lets someone jump the queue without consulting everybody who will be affected.

Chardy

I've been at the train station after a football match when the queue for gents is ridiculous, and some of the men have asked if they can use the ladies' loo. No problem.

Some of the men have asked.
So not men pretending to be women who go into women’s toilets unasked, with or without ill-intentions?
As you said, No problem.
Let’s remember who caused the issue of men in female safe spaces.

LaCrepescule

The EHRC has suggested that trans people should be provided with separate toilet facilities. How businesses/organisations are expected to provide this will be interesting and what will they be called? Personally I’m all for having facilities for men/women/trans/whatever else you see yourself as, as single spaces.
I’ve been known to use the gents toilets when the queue for the ladies was too long. And after all, most of us had to share a bathroom/toilet with the male members of our families.
As long as the urinals are kept separate from the cubicles, what’s the issue?

I've been at the train station after a football match when the queue for gents is ridiculous, and some of the men have asked if they can use the ladies' loo. No problem

Jackiest

There are also men that are not super strong and can fight of anyone. I know many that are careful where they go at night and men are 3 times more likely to be attacked by a stranger than a woman.

I wondered when that would be pointed out, and my 'on the whole' ignored.

Yes, of course there are strong women and weak men. Of course a 20 year old woman is likely to be able to fight off an 80 year old man. Does that really need saying?

But law has to be made on generalisations, and generally, on the whole, in most cases, more often than not, all things being equal, usually most men are stronger, faster and more predatory than most women.

As much as the courts have addressed this issue for all of us on paper, sadly I feel that life has become no safer for women and children in toilets until they are better secured.

There are also men that are not super strong and can fight of anyone. I know many that are careful where they go at night and men are 3 times more likely to be attacked by a stranger than a woman.

Public toilets are one of the most dangerous places for women and children. Imagine how distraught this mother and her 10 year old daughter must have been: a morning shopping in a Morrisons supermarket and the little girl needs the toilet. Whilst her mother was nearby, the child went in on her own. "Her attacker grabbed the terrified youngster by the face, shoved her into the cubicle and ordered her to remove her trousers." After that he filmed a 12-year-old over a toilet cubicle in Asda.
He evaded being caught because he was dressed up as a woman. After being convicted of the sexual assaults against the children, he went to live in a women's hostel. More breaches of his strict bail conditions meant that he was jailed. He was put in a women's jail. He's since changed his name again; this time he's Alyanna McKenna. He was previously Katie Dolatowski. Yup, scary places women's toilets when men dressed as women can go in.

I always find it rather difficult to talk of men as predatory, stronger and faster but the fact remains that I do not feel safe alone and out at night, neither do I feel safe in many public toilets. One in my local car park had to shut due to safety issues and it is rather appalling that we must even think about this still. When I was young I always thought these things would be less of a concern with progress. I remember reading on Facebook about women saying they would rather be alone in a forest with a bear than a man. It is rather disappointing these issues remain for all of us.

Galaxy

One of the reasons men don't complain about women in their spaces is because there is no risk, women also obviously don't for example impact mens sports in the way men in women's sport do.
Women who identify as men aren't routinely placed in mens prisons because the risk would be too high.

Agreed. And also that on the whole, women are vulnerable to men in a way that is not the case the other way round.

Men tend to be stronger, faster and more predatory than women. I appreciate that transmen are not discussed as often as transwomen, but there are reasons for that, and would add that if men see transmen in their spaces as a threat we would know about it by now. If they do see it that way, then it's not for women to sort it out.

One of the reasons men don't complain about women in their spaces is because there is no risk, women also obviously don't for example impact mens sports in the way men in women's sport do.
Women who identify as men aren't routinely placed in mens prisons because the risk would be too high.

To be fair, I think the blokes in the gents might be a bit as well.

Couldn't possibly have known, if he walked into a ladies bathroom I think anyone would have a shock.

Yes it really struck me.

I'm not at all surprised Wyllow if they look like the person in the post link at 08.40 today.

And again, indeed. 💁

Going back to the question you asked Carlotta upthread about why haven't men complained maybe they didn't mostly know?

Feminism is a wonderful thing. Single secure spaces please for anyone who needs them, especially women.

And again . . .

I support the idea of single secure spaces for anyone who needs them. I am quite in favour of that and if that is virtue signalling by your definition please accept this comment for your consideration.

How is it a positive thing to tell people that you will support everyone when (a) there is nothing you can do, and (b) the law applies as much to you as to anyone else? You are simply saying how ‘kind’ you are, and that’s really for others to judge

Anyway I just nipped back to collect the bag of cakes I baked for the food bank. Catch you later.