Is phonics the best way to learn to read and spell?

English is a very trying language for phonics. Children in Early Years start with phonics, but are introduced swiftly to the idea that some words are " tricky" and they must be learnt by the method known as look - and - say that you outlined in your description of the words in a tin.
Both are important: phonics alone will keep you pretty bewildered reading English.

It most definitely is.

But I'm afraid that the approach to spelling used by your GDs school is dreadful. Spelling is ultimately a case of muscle memory, the more often a word is spelled wrong the more automatic that 'wrong' spelling becomes and the more difficult it is to alter it. Children should be, as far as possible, only writing words which have sound spellings they have already learned in them.

If it's a piece of free writing the teacher should be able to point out that, although the word they've written is phonetically correct (well, I hope it is) they've spelled a sound wrongly because they haven't yet learned the correct spelling and show it to them. Many children will remember this and get the spelling correct from then on, others may need lots of practice to internalise it.

I know that the theory behind not correcting is that you shouldn't be negative as it discourages a child, but it's perfectly possible to be very positive about the work while helping with the spelling of a word or two.

You will find my opinion of phonics is not popular on this forum as it's stuffed with retired teachers who were trained in whole word/look and say teaching methods... I just spent the last decade of my working life trying to remediate poor readers and spellers in Y7 upwards. I know that phonics is the way to go.

Blimey MaizieD I find myself agreeing with you.

Two GC at same primary school (yrs 1 & 6 have learnt with phonics, the just 6yr old loves reading and is now spelling correctly due to a fabulous teacher who does correct their spellings in the now called big writes He had this teacher in reception and again this year in a split yr1 / 2 class.

The one in year 6 didn’t have this teacher and found spelling correctly rather difficult when he moved on from phonics, but with lots of gentle encouragement they are now really good at spellings and grammar.

(To my utter dismay I found myself spelling out a word to a call centre operative last week using curly k and kicking k 🤦‍♀️)

I know that phonics is the way to go.
Definitely MaizieD.

I know he isn't always popular, but a good read of Chomsky's thoughts on language explains.

Phonics is ONE of the methods of learning to read. different words need different approaches. Many words can be sounded out a letter at a time, but as Chocolatelovinggran has said, English is not a good language to learn entirely by that method, so many words are borrowed from other languages. Once a phonetic misspelling becomes familiar, it becomes absorbed as standard, so the orthodox version needs to replace it as soon as possible.

I'm no expert, phonics always seemed to make sense to me, as far as observing my own children and grandchildren.

The English language is illogical at times hence, knife, know etc. However, when my older child went into the infants, briefly there was a head who appeared to endorse the "surround them with books and they'll just pick up reading through word recognition" he didn't subscribe to the phonic approach. Because I found that theory alarming, possibly it works in some instances, I bought a series of phonic books called "Bangers and Mash" my son was reading with the aid of those before 5, my children loved this series as did our grandchildren who also liked to read them to us. Soon after my son went into reception we had a change of head who did a complete about turn from her predecessor and she made it quite clear she absolutely disagreed with his approach and phonics were implemented right away. Much to the relief of the majority of parents.

Elegran

Phonics is ONE of the methods of learning to read. different words need different approaches. Many words can be sounded out a letter at a time, but as Chocolatelovinggran has said, English is not a good language to learn entirely by that method, so many words are borrowed from other languages. Once a phonetic misspelling becomes familiar, it becomes absorbed as standard, so the orthodox version needs to replace it as soon as possible.

Phonics doesn't involve 'spelling out one letter at a time' at all. It is about identifying the discrete sounds in words and the ways that each sound can be spelled. This spelling can involve combinations of letters, anything up to 4 letters. But we mostly learn to cope with it. It is teaching the method used to construct words in the first place.

Different languages have different ways of spelling the sounds but most use the alphabet we are familiar with to spell them. Unfortunately, English is composed of words from many different languages, most of which have retained their original spellings. That's why there are more 'sound spellings' to learn in English than there are in languages which haven't had so many different influences on them. This makes learning to read and spell take longer than for many other languages but phonics makes it easier and demystifies it.

Thanks for support everyone

Both my 2, 5yr old Grandchildren are learning Phonics.. One lives in Berkshire one Hampshire it's interesting to see how different schools approach it, in style and books.
Both only started school last September and are getting along fine and enjoying it.

My DGDs are 6 and 8 and learned to read with phonics. I have been introduced to a world of phonemes, graphemes and tricky words. My children learned to read with the tin method and repetition. All four have developed into good readers.

I can only give my experience with my two children. My son was taught to read through "See and Say* flash cards. It took him a while and he also had difficulty with spelling. My daughter was taught with phonics and had no problems with reading or spelling. I will add that it may just be a difference in children. Son was always science and math oriented. Daughter is a linguist and speaks 3 languages.

MaizieD I am on your side. My MiL was an infant teacher and for 3 terrible years under one headmistress had to teach children to read using the ITA, initial teaching alphabet. She said that the gransfer from that to normal spelling, pushed some children's reading skills back by about a year.

Yes, phonics is the best way to learn.

ITA was a big mistake.
Children learn in different ways, so a structured mix of methods works for most classes.

I think that research has shown that phonics is, indeed, the most useful way to learn to read.

(To my utter dismay I found myself spelling out a word to a call centre operative last week using curly k and kicking k 🤦‍♀️)
😂

None of my DC or GDC learnt by phonics or the ITA method but I do remember my friend's DGD were taught the ITA method at their primary school. She was a teacher and disliked that method, she always said they had to learn twice.

I know that the theory behind not correcting is that you shouldn't be negative as it discourages a child, but it's perfectly possible to be very positive about the work while helping with the spelling of a word or two.
My DGN's primary school did not believe in correcting spelling or grammar as it inhibited the child's imagination, apparently. His spelling was always very erratic although he is now an extremely clever scientist.

Not all children can learn to read using the phonics method. Unfortunately , our English language, does not always lend itself to spelling using phonics. The school I used to work in, taught spelling in separate lessons. They used Jane Considine spelling programme for year 2 upwards.

Our German SiL, now a senior professor at a British university, did remark, when his sons were learning to read, that he was surprised that they managed it so well!

Three of my four children were taught with phonics and my youngest daughter without. It took her much longer to master reading than the others, in fact until her teacher produced some books from the old phonics system she didn’t progress at all.

That’s awful I was taught to read by phonics or as we called it sounding out the words but we always had to learn spellings from about 6 /7 years old so we were well aware that words and spellings didn’t always match I don’t remember anyone having a problem I remember learning spelling every night and having a spelling test at the end of every week

No I hated them when my daughters were learning to read and write. I was also a teacher and insisted my girls spelled correctly as they would have to eventually...learn correctly first time and saves relearning later. I was a secondary school teacher and I was forever correcting poor spelling...I put a lot of it down to phonics. ie nife instead of knife and gard instead of guard,hors instead of horse.. I hate it...

Should add my children were taught by phonics all good readers

Mojack as I said in my post I was a very early reader with phonics and totally understood by repetition that spelling was different but we did a spelling test every week and there was really no problem I would never spell as I read The same with my children all learnt by phonics and were good readers and spellers never anything like the examples you give

I think kids have to learn twice ? Nonsense ...

Not all children learn to read through phonics - some use the look and say method. If you cover the bottom half of words you will see the top of half of words and you can decipher what the word is. Children may use this method to recognise what a word is. Phonics help some children but in doing so they also need to recognise some letters are read differently such as split vowel diphthongs. Some phonic sounds are blends of letters. Children who prefer the look and say method may become frustrated using phonics. However with large class sizes it is very difficult to cater to a single child no matter how hard the teacher tries. Incidentally one of my DC used look and say and the other used phonics. My 4 year old DGD is now teaching herself to read using look and say.