The Boomers Have Had It Too Good?

David49

"David49 You mean you effectively saying that you were ''Alright Jack' and just did not know or care what happened to other people."

No more so than most others, especially graduates where the only reason to go to university is to earn more than others and have a better life. When we were starting it was tough just like you we worked hard and went without, I can't remember what work you did, maybe lawyer?, what ever it was you worked for others and got paid handsomely for it.

So you were also "alright Jack" too

David49 You clearly do not know or understand the phrase 'I'm alright Jack' It corollary is, 'and I do not give a toss about anyone else.'

And that is where we differ. I fully appreciate the good fortune I have had in life, but I am also very aware that other people have not been so fortunate, not because I am superior and always made the right decisions and they did not and therefore can be ignored, I have been fortunate, often because of decisions made by other people, I did not choose my own parents, but I had parents who encouraged me to get a good education. Other friends were not so lucky. Their parents made them leave school at 16 or refused to help with maintenance payments. University maintenance grants were means tested.That is one example

Other people have suffered from illness and disability, either theirs or of a family member or they live in regions remote from good work opportunities and cannot readily move.

You are being very naive if you think the only reason for going to university is for a better job and more money. That is certainly true for some, but many degree subjects, certainly train you for a career, in many cases are even necessary for specific careers - nursing is a degree necessary profession, but not particularly well paid, as are many ancillary health sector jobs.

Many jobs in the humanities do not pay well but people choose to study these subjects when they could study something more lucrative because their passion for a particular subject or career means more to them than the money.

I know I have been fortunate in life, but I trust that it has never made me as lacking in compassion as you sound to those who were less fortunate, nor as smug in thinking that my success was all the result of my personal superiority. It wasn't.

Fallingstar

Have raised this before on another thread. Is quite an age difference in the group of older people labelled baby boomers. Some of us are old enough to have retired and received a state pension aged 60, as well as a bus pass. But for those born in the early 1960s up to 1964 they will have to wait until they are 67 to get a state pension and a bus pass throughout most of England. They will not enjoy what many of us have enjoyed having to work for longer, sometimes with ill health. A point worth noting when all baby boomers are lumped together.

That's what I always think, Fallingstar. I resent the categorising of people based on birth dates. It was a marketing tool, and I can see how it would work for that, but as a sociological view it is lazy and inaccurate. As you say, there is a huge difference in the lifestyles and life chances of a woman born in 1945 in Middlesborough and a man born in 1965 in Windsor, and calling them both 'Boomers' as though they will have had similar lives and experiences is reductive to say the least.
Earlier Boomers had grammar schools, university expansion, secure jobs with things like day release, generous pension schemes and (for women) retirement at 60, but feminism hadn't taken hold, and there were few nurseries of creches. Late ones had comprehensives, mass unemployment, higher house prices and a big hike in the SPA, but childcare was available, if expensive. It's not as simple as that, though, as so much depends on things like sex, social class, geographical area/opportunities and so on.

It's a deliberate way of turning generations against one another, so that there is less opposition to measures that affect 'the others', whether that means cutting pensions or in-work benefits.

It's not helped by people who ignore nuances, either. As we all know, we might have had free university, but hardly anyone went, and from the other side, young people might seem to waste their money on things we did without, such as 'the latest phone' and portable coffee, but the main reason we did without them was that they didn't exist. Both sides need to try to see the whole picture.

I agree with you too, Terribull that all generations have suffered from anxiety - Mother's Little Helper was written about Marianne Faithfull's mother, who was born in 1912. The difference is as you say - we weren't encouraged to wallow in it, and knew that expecting others to do our jobs when we took sick leave wasn't realistic. Parents who had lived through the war weren't likely to be accommodating either. I think that this is one way in which the welfare system could be improved, particularly as more jobs can be done from home now. People shouldn't be able to take sick leave because they feel anxious. That needs support from the NHS too, though.

David that chip on your shoulder is getting worse . Many, many people go to university because they want to learn, because they want to mix with different people and grow up in an independent but fairly safe environment, and not because 'the only reason to go to university is to earn more than others and have a better life'. For some, earning more may be the result of becoming well-qualified, but it's far from the only motivation people have for getting an education.

Monica Well said!

His actual phrase (often misquoted) was “some of who have never had it so good.

NittWitt

Thanks for your comments Graphite.
I titled it as I did because I was interested in the topic in relation to the views that were heard, rather than the process.
I hoped people might listen and comment about them, as you did, but I don't think many have.
You're right about Henry. I noticed he began by talking about when boomers started work in the 80s & 90s but, of course, most boomers (defined as born 1946-1964) would have started work well before that.

Because of the remit of the program jacky was unable to pull Henry upon a few comments.
When he was having his pity party Re i shouldn’t be living like this at my age the retort could have been you support a party that caused this housing shortage
And again when he said that he was fortunate that his parents were able to help him
Completely missing the point that he was a beneficiary of his parents good luck.
It was interesting to listen to 2 tories with different opinions.
We here it in real life but rarely in the media.

We were poor. We struggled, but just scraped by. At one time I had 4 part time jobs while my children were at primary school - my kids even helped me clean offices after school.

Now I have received my pension at a delayed age of 66 ( I was one of those who were genuinely not informed/nor knew of the delay from 60, (although I wouldn't have been able to save for that in any case) and lost £48K that many women my age have gone/are going to their grave without, and sadly without the option to pass that on to subsequent generations.

I am still poor. I haven't had a replacement, newer car in over a decade or a holiday over a few days in 20+ years, but I am rich in life experience and personal growth. My kids are doing well as we somehow had the presence of mind to ensure a good education for them, despite our financial situation.

As others have said, current generations have to live with the consequences of politicians' previous actions and although Thatcher's policy re selling off social housing was a terrible decision for many subsequent generations, it was a thing that helped people like me improve their options for their children's future then.

Hopefully most governments introduce policies that help new generations in one way or the other.

Oreo

Ilovecheese

Do some people want to go back to the days when some pensioners lived on cornflakes and tea?

I think all the setting generation against generation is awful.

I don't remember this intergenerational conflict when I was young. It's unpleasant, negative and unconstructive.

I think many of us may recognise the I'm All Right Jack type of personality, having come across them in life. They are not easy to deal with.
Compassion for those less fortunate does not come amiss.

David49

"David, you seem to have lived a charmed life, this always happens to some, no matter how dire things look. I hope you truly appreciate how fortunate you were, but you you should not make you blind to the difficulties and suffering so many of your contemporaries faced - and still face."

It's all about making the right decisions and being in control of your own future, convincing others your way is good, not just the bank manager, your partner and workers too. Loan repayment being half of income was pretty normal too.
Those who did not do well often made the wrong decisions, chose the wrong career, the wrong partner, didnt learn skill it was the way they chose

What a relief to have a government that does not share this cold, critical, negative view. It isn’t all about making the right choices, misfortune, ill health, being conned by a partner who becomes abusive and bad luck all happen to people doing their best

Oreo

I know that my Grandparents just scraped by on their pensions and my parents never had much to spare either.

This was true for us.
We didn’t think we were poor but looking back we probably were. There was never money for any extras and everything we had my parents saved for a very long time for because my dad wouldn’t go on the old HP.

"David, you seem to have lived a charmed life, this always happens to some, no matter how dire things look. I hope you truly appreciate how fortunate you were, but you you should not make you blind to the difficulties and suffering so many of your contemporaries faced - and still face."

It's all about making the right decisions and being in control of your own future, convincing others your way is good, not just the bank manager, your partner and workers too. Loan repayment being half of income was pretty normal too.
Those who did not do well often made the wrong decisions, chose the wrong career, the wrong partner, didnt learn skill it was the way they chose

David are you looking for the short argument, or the full hour

"David49 You mean you effectively saying that you were ''Alright Jack' and just did not know or care what happened to other people."

No more so than most others, especially graduates where the only reason to go to university is to earn more than others and have a better life. When we were starting it was tough just like you we worked hard and went without, I can't remember what work you did, maybe lawyer?, what ever it was you worked for others and got paid handsomely for it.

So you were also "alright Jack" too

I think we're all of our time! Sometimes comparing how Boomers lived, is as far removed from Millenials and Generation Z hopes and aspirations, as it would be for us in our youth pondering on what life would be like to be one of those who were coming of age in the early part of the 20th century.

We had lower expectations as to going out, we were prepared to stay in and make sacrifices to get on the first rung of the housing ladder. We didn't have all the gadgetry that's around today to spend our disposable income on. My memories of what money went on were, rent, before we got a mortgage, bills, fares, the costs of running a small car, food, clothes the occasional meal out. We spent more time entertaining friends in our various homes. It was still a big deal to set up independently. I worked in London throughout the '70s and '80s, it was easy to get a job, it was a time of fully employment, although I appreciate not everywhere.

That's a lot that's harder today, university education is no longer free and the interest rate for paying off student loans is appalling. It's so much harder to get on the housing ladder, it's hard to rent, a shrinking market. It's particularly hard for young people trying to secure a job at entry level. My greatest wish is that this government focuses on the younger generation to alleviate the proposition of many falling into a downward spiral of no work and a life on benefits. I think the issue of so many claiming mental health issues is becoming unmanageable though Of course many of our generation suffered from anxieties for example, I know I did at different junctures of my life, but I think many of us knew we still had to get up and get on with it, if anything going to work can be a positive rather than languishing at home. The previous generation, our parents may have wondered what anxieties we might have had that compared to theirs, being in a war zone or having bombs raining down at home, both with the fear of "will I live to see another day?" hanging over them. Anxieties and such feelings need to be rationalised. I think there has to be distinction between genuine clinical depression and having the blues, the latter is part and parcel of life.

David49 You mean you effectively saying that you were ''Alright Jack' and just did not know or care what happened to other people.

When 3 million people are unemployed, even if you are not unemployed. It means that many people round you are. Were you not aware of the misery this was causing all those people and their families? probably 10 million or more, if youinclude spouses and children

Were you completely unaware of the international events that could bring you and all around you to disaster? Nuclear warfare kills people, but that is the easy bit, Look to Japan, after the nuclear bombs were dropped. The millions who lived maimed and injured with radiation sickness that damaged their DNA and meant they passed the genetic mutations to thir children and grandchildren. That hung over us for 40 years.

We are among the lucky ones, we both did well in our careers and are comfortable in retirement, but it was not easy on the way, we were both made redundant at different times. We had years when redundancy hovered over us, unable to plan anything from a holiday to buying a car because we never knew from one months end to another whether we would have a job or be unemployed.

At one point our mortgage payments were 50% of our monthly income, this with two small children to support.

David, you seem to have lived a charmed life, this always happens to some, no matter how dire things look. I hope you truly appreciate how fortunate you were, but you you should not make you blind to the difficulties and suffering so many of your contemporaries faced - and still face.

I know that my Grandparents just scraped by on their pensions and my parents never had much to spare either.

Ilovecheese

Do some people want to go back to the days when some pensioners lived on cornflakes and tea?

I think all the setting generation against generation is awful.

Yes, generally speaking they have but that’s not their fault. Everyone lives with the hand they’re dealt.

David49 I do not know what Nirvana you lived in, but it is certainly not the world I lived in. Life back then was as uncertain and worrying as it is now. It is just the things causing concern are different and just as we had to deal with the problems besetting us, which were the results of things that happened before we were born, as has every generation, The younger generations will have to do the same.

Sorry you somehow you were unfortunate, I found work easy to get, houses cheap to rent, food never seemed expensive, bank managers that could be helpful if you had a good plan.

I was always self employed, 15% interest rates never bothered me because inflation was 25% however much I borrowed I always gained. Nothing unusual plenty of others had the foresight and confidence to take those risks, many did better than me.

We did it tough, much tougher than any of them do today but at least we could get somewhere to live, albeit badly furnished and basic. Standards were much lower re furnishings and electrical appliances ( didn’t have any)

Thanks for your comments Graphite.
I titled it as I did because I was interested in the topic in relation to the views that were heard, rather than the process.
I hoped people might listen and comment about them, as you did, but I don't think many have.
You're right about Henry. I noticed he began by talking about when boomers started work in the 80s & 90s but, of course, most boomers (defined as born 1946-1964) would have started work well before that.

Have raised this before on another thread. Is quite an age difference in the group of older people labelled baby boomers. Some of us are old enough to have retired and received a state pension aged 60, as well as a bus pass. But for those born in the early 1960s up to 1964 they will have to wait until they are 67 to get a state pension and a bus pass throughout most of England. They will not enjoy what many of us have enjoyed having to work for longer, sometimes with ill health. A point worth noting when all baby boomers are lumped together.

I still stand by the fact that our grandparents went through the First World War and our parents the Second World War. They created a different type of person who just got on with whatever there was. My parents brought me up to do my best, be co-operative, honest, hardworking irrespective. Many people suffered and times were hard but there was more co-operation than now. You had to be to survive.

More division in our country Keep stirring the pot

There has always been poverty there will always be poverty
I didn’t live a particularly easy life as a young mother and I haven’t really lived that special a life as a pensioner especially now with my 25p extra
However I ve neither been rich or poor just plodding on as most of us do
I have no interest in making young people feel either superior or inferior we are all doing our best in what way we can and should work together
David49 my grandkids are much better off than I was at their age I have 7 and all are in good jobs, one owns their own house. I was 40 before I owned a house my parents in their early 60 s They have all holidayed abroad since they were babies I was 18 when I went on my first holiday to Jersey, my parents never went abroad. I’ve never owned a car never ever had one in the family the grandkids have all had cars since they were 17/18and I m happy for them

What do you call well off though? I never considered I was badly off

I don’t know, I think they seem to have plenty of money these days.
I couldn’t afford beauty treatments, tattoos & Starbucks coffees back in the day.
As for free bus fares, I use to walk everywhere.
Maybe it’s all credit cards.

Iam64

I dislike attempts to set generations against other. Young families have always not had enough cash, I know we often lurched from month to month. Yet we had more than our grandparents dreamed of, as well as more than our parents.

I’m fortunate my adult children and husbands are all working, though unlike my generation, three are self employed so more precarious than I was at their age (early 40s). They’ve always worked, from Saturday jobs in retail in sixth form and pubs or bars at university . I feel for the current generation for whom Saturday jobs are less available
I also wonder how my lot manage with bigger mortgages and cost of living costs, alongside greater expectations of parents to provide holiday clubs and after school activities. The cost of food, heating, somewhere to live takes a greater proportion of their income, is my impression.

I’m with MayBee in being horrified by the debt those who worked hard to achieve a degree and have fiendish debt, the loans were mis sold.

Generations should avoid blaming each other, we need not to get defensive for being Boomers. IMO our generation contributed a lot to our country and communities in our life time. Be proud of our achievements. Despite our difficulties, our society is more equal than when we were yiung 🌞

Generations should avoid blaming each other...

Indeed they should.

Each generation has little to no control over the economic climate of its era - apart from voting and organising pressure groups.

What we should be doing is joining forces and demanding a more equitable society for all.

... otherwise we let successive governments off the hook and allow them to partake in the generational or other demographic 'war'. Which is where we're at now.