Petition to stop the EARLY RELEASE for PC Harpers killers

Tuliptree

Well all the petitions in the world won’t make Harper’s Law retrospective and nor should they. As for joint enterprise, I’m sure you know that it still exists but is applied differently . In the face of dreadful crimes, a civilised society has to hang on even more tightly to due process and the rule of law otherwise we’re no better than Russia, China and many other lawless countries where political/ military leaders hold sway over the courts.

My heart wants to throw away the key for these two little ****.
My head agrees with Tuliptree.
There doesn't seem to be a legal way of making an exception in their case.

MissAdventure

We have to hang on to the rule of law, but that doesn't mean we can't make our feelings about the law known.
530,000 signatures suggest that people think the law's indeed an ass.

What was wrong was that the killing of emergency workers didn’t attract a mandatory life sentence before. Now it does and I can’t imagine hardly anyone disagreeing with that. As for stopping the early release of prisoners in the same category as these two, who would we release instead? That’s the issue isn’t it? If there were a simple solution, I’m sure AB would have implemented it. I actually think it’s to his credit that he’s not taking the superficially easy route out of this. The real time for petitions would have been between 2010-2024 when creating net prison places practically ceased. But that was not making headlines sadly.

I don't believe any prisoners in the same category should be released, but I know very little about the law, the volume of prisoners vs. places.

The whole system needs a major overhaul, I'd think, and I seem to remember that being the case for many years.

MissAdventure

I don't believe any prisoners in the same category should be released, but I know very little about the law, the volume of prisoners vs. places.

The whole system needs a major overhaul, I'd think, and I seem to remember that being the case for many years.

But if we don’t want that category releasing, there has to be another group instead released. There really is a crisis with lack of prison places and prisons can’t obviously materialise overnight.

I'm convinced there must be people who pose no risk to others, who could be released and monitored.
Or perhaps people who needn't be given custodial sentences.

Hopefully, our new P.M will be looking into reviewing the whole system as a matter of urgency.
Do you think he will?

MissAdventure

I'm convinced there must be people who pose no risk to others, who could be released and monitored.
Or perhaps people who needn't be given custodial sentences.

Hopefully, our new P.M will be looking into reviewing the whole system as a matter of urgency.
Do you think he will?

But I thought he had reviewed it - that’s why releases are delayed until October. He and the Justice Secretary are saying it’s the best they can do in the circumstances to safeguard the whole CJS. I really honestly believe that if there were another solution, they’d implement if. Neither of them are bad or stupid men.

Oh, in that case, we'll have to put but not necessarily shut up, then.

Nothing the public can do other than make their feelings known.

Perhaps there will, ultimately, be more people seeking justice for themselves, or their family members.

MissAdventure

Oh, in that case, we'll have to put but not necessarily shut up, then.

Nothing the public can do other than make their feelings known.

Perhaps there will, ultimately, be more people seeking justice for themselves, or their family members.

What is really needed but won’t happen is for the public to really care about the CJS and being willing to fund a much better one for all our sakes but particularly in the name of justice

Extra tax, as a way?

The problem is with many things that there has to be an initial investment and then later on it might pay off . But our political system encourages short- termism doesn’t it? It’s all very depressing but what I’m sure doesn’t help are populist solutions to heart breaking cases .

Then there is the issue of some people having started life with a large "head start", in terms of stability, education, parents, food, even heat, these days.

They all play a role, whether people want to consider that or not.
It's fact.

It is Miss A

Tuliptree

It is life now for killers of emergency workers - this law was introduced after PC Harpers murder. But it can’t be applied retrospectively . As awful as this case is, we should all want to live in a society where the rule of law applies to all regardless of how terrible their behaviour is.

The law is an ass

I’m in two minds about this, because I don’t understand what the implications are for other murderers and their accomplices who are still in prison. How many others are there who have killed or injured members of the emergency services, how many have killed others in the public eye, how many have killed people they didn’t know, and people they did know? I don’t think an exception should be made without some consistency being part of the consideration, because it will open more floodgates if it isn’t equally applied.

I’m in favour of Harper’s. Law . When emergency workers are on duty, often risking their own lives and safety to help us and keep us safe, I think it’s quite right that the law now treats their killers more harshly I don’t think it’s relevant about other murderers.

Thanks for the petition link overthemoongran and V3ra - now signed and passed on.

You’re entitled to your opinion Tuliptree, as we all are, but it is just an opinion, what I want to know is what changing the law would actually mean in practice, and where a line would, or should be drawn. Everybody who has been murdered no doubt has people close to them, or members of the public, who want them to be treated as an exception, but the law needs to be consistent.

Casdon

You’re entitled to your opinion Tuliptree, as we all are, but it is just an opinion, what I want to know is what changing the law would actually mean in practice, and where a line would, or should be drawn. Everybody who has been murdered no doubt has people close to them, or members of the public, who want them to be treated as an exception, but the law needs to be consistent.

Yes I understand my support for Harper’s Law is an opinion and not a fact. However an opinion I guess is shared by many. I don’t understand the other point you’re making. When Harper’s Law came in, it applied to all cases from the specified day. The line was the day in the legislation That’s the consistency - all murders of emergency workers whilst on duty from whatever the date was.

Yes, but as Harper’s Law isn’t retrospective, there must be other people who are already in prison, who are eligible for early release because they were sentenced before it was introduced?

Oh I see what you mean Well I don’t know but what I do know is that in the UK the murder of emergency workers is incredibly rare ( thank goodness).

There is such tremendously strong feelings about this that, whenever they get out, I'm sure that Karma will be administered.

I doubt they'll be laughing when set foot outside the security of prison.

There’s no such thing as karma.

Tuliptree

Oh I see what you mean Well I don’t know but what I do know is that in the UK the murder of emergency workers is incredibly rare ( thank goodness).

I looked up to see how many are murdered or seriously injured per year, AI response:

‘While exact annual figures for emergency workers explicitly murdered by assault are low and vary year-on-year (typically in the single digits), tens of thousands are physically attacked or seriously injured annually in the UK. Around 14,200 adult offenders are formally sentenced each year for assaulting emergency workers, alongside over 22,500 violent incidents recorded annually against ambulance staff alone.’

I don’t really feel any the wiser on what it would mean in terms of precedent if PC Harper’s assailants were made to serve the full sentence though,

If those from other countries who are serving time in prisons, were deported to serve time in their own countries, it would free enough prison spaces that there would be no need to release British prisoners serving less time that their sentence.

It wouldn’t, because by that token we would receive back to the UK all our nationals who are in prison overseas. Net gain zero.