Dad's death, many questions

My Dad died before Christmas and I mentioned to family a couple of times. Why are they asking us to get something sweet down him to give him energy, we were just putting of the inevitable.
He was dying so just let him go as I couldn’t watch him suffer
It still baffles me now

I am so sorry for your loss, Lily65.
My father also died in hospital when he had "final" stage bowel cancer.
On the day before he died he complained that he'd been given a vile-tasting medicine by mouth that he hadn't had before.
I wondered what it must have been and whether it had hastened his death but decided to ask no questions because even if it had hastened his death, he had suffered for long enough.

My deepest sympathy.

I think the attitude shown by the staff looking after your father is caused by the fact that many people would rather be given false hope than be told outright that they are dying.

If your father had made it clear to them that he knew he was dying and had come to terms with it, the staff were very wrong to jolly him along, but if he or you had not made it clear that you both knew what the prognosis was, then you shouldn't really blame them.

My sister found it very hard to forgive the oncologist who told her bluntly, before she asked for a prognosis, that she would be lucky to live another two years. She lived less than one year from that day, and I cannot help but wonder whether she could have enjoyed that time more, or even lived a little longer if the oncologist hadn't been so forthright.

Oh Lily - how this chimes bells with me!

OH fell and fractured his femur and needed hip surgery about 4 weeks ago - he has end stage Parkinsons and weights about 6 stone.

After a few days, when he was weak, confused and in pain they wanted to ship him off for "intensive rehab" at a cottage hospital. And I said: "Rehab for what? - to what end?" It is just a knee jerk reaction, a protocol that is followed in acute hospitals.

The concept that someone's life is gradually coming to an end and they should be allowed some peace and dignity does not fit the algorithm.

I am very sorry for your loss.

I’m with you on this Foradora9. I’m currently sitting with my 90 yr old Mum in the local hospital while she has a blood transfusion.
She’s very frail with multiple long standing heath problems and tells us she’s “had enough”. The GP ordered the transfusion despite the family questioning it and as he deems that she has capacity to make decisions, we cannot use the power of attorney. She fluctuates between lucidity and total confusion. She has lost her mobility, is incontinent and hardly eats. I could cry seeing my lovely Mum like this. ?

Oh how I agree . Doctors kept on treating my very sick mum and taking blood samples from her when she really wanted to be left in peace. Eventually DH spoke to the doctor in charge and asked him to think what it would be like if this was his mother. I persuaded them to put her on a morphine drip . They pointed out this would hasten her end and my answer was " so what, did this matter "

I looked after my grand mother for the last eight years of her life. She was 94 when she died and was bed ridden by then. Our GP, was very good and kept an eye on her without me calling him out. On his last visit to the house he said he thought she was in pain and it was time to start the morphine. I was to go to the chemist to get the medicine and give her half a teaspoonful. Then he said he would ask a nurse to come in and fix a morphine drip into her hip. I did as he asked. She didn't wake up again after the small dose I gave her and died at ten o'clock that evening. The sad thing was, she had been laughing before the morphine at something silly I had said, so I doubted she was in any pain. But as you can imagine I truly believe I initiated her death, by administering the first dose of morphine. I still feel the guilt now even though it was several years ago. To me the doctor ok'd euthanasia and made me a party to it.

My father was very close to dying in hospital and the nursing staff went to great lengths to make it as easy and comfortable as possible.

Along comes a young night sister who decided no one died on her watch. She rallied him and he lived another 18 months which were sheer hel l for both my parents and very difficult for me as I lived quite a long way away, running a business, and teenagers taking exams. My father, who had Alzheimer's constantly asked when will it all be over..

My relief when his coffin came into the crematorium was immense. A troubled soul laid to rest. I cannot forgive that bl---y nurse for putting the family through that stress.

Yes farawaynanny I was about to ask had anybody questioning / ignoring the do not give water requests seen anybody with aspiration pneumonia?

www.dignityindying.org.uk/

To those who question the “don’t give water”. As the body slows down towards death it loses the ability to digest food and more importantly to swallow liquid safely. This could result in choking to death which would be very unpleasant for everyone. The staff should have explained this to you. At the hospice we gave patients crushed ice wrapped in gauze to moisten the mouth and give comfort.

How interesting to read your replies. I suppose both my parents were in denial right up to almost the end. This was compounded by some of the staff bustling about. I do understand that some movement is necessary but it seemed so cruel in some ways.

Nemos .....I had no idea what I was doing and had contradictory messages from the medics.

Bluebelle, sorry for your difficult situation

My neighbour is suffering with a great deal of guilt following her mother's death last year. She visited her in hospital when the terminal cancer took a turn for the worse and - like others have said on here - she was told not to give her water. She didn't understand it at the time but was too distressed to question it. Now she feels she should have ignored the staff or at least asked why, but of course it's too late now. Maybe the staff feel they are doing it for the right reasons, but it seems uneccesarily cruel to me.

My own experiences with hospitals is not good. My FIL died in there, BIL and MIL too. It was absolutely clear that MIL would die before long (estimated in hours) so in their wisdom they decided to place her in a ward where all and sundry could here her rattling, dying breaths which incidently lasted about 12 hours. Other patients were very unsettled with the (loud) noisy breaths in the middle of the night but nurses took no notice. We went home for a short break from the chaos & desperation and she died just after we left. Really bad, to put someone on a ward in that condition.

Justanotherwannabe so sorry for your loss; it sounds as if the end was treated well though, it's good to hear that there were well-trained and caring staff there.

So sorry Lily65; it shouldn't have been like that, and it's true that many staff have little training in end-of-life care. Not many people realise that you can contact the local Palliative Care Team for input if someone is likely to die within the next 12 months. If you have Lasting Power of Attorney for the person, staff must pay heed to your wishes for care as if you were that person. Finally, there a Government Report: One Chance to Get it Right (improvements to care in the last days and hours of life) available as a PDF document on www.gov.uk

My mother died last week. She was in hospital for something else (about to be discharged) and she contracted pneumonia, partly because her immune system was low. We knew she didn't want to be resuscitated, but fortunately she had made a living will spelling out in the clearest terms that she didn't want invasive care to prolong her life.

The staff at the hospital (St Peter's, Chertsey) were amazing, they checked with her (she couldn't talk by then, but could write shakily) and with us and simply made her comfortable. They couldn't have been kinder to her and to us.

In the end she slipped away just four days after they had first said, "You've got a bit of a cough."

I guess they are not to say in case they get it wrong and are in more trouble maryhoffman37
While there's life there's hope sort of approach?
It can't have been easy

My dad died 45 years ago, in hospital. I visited him and was pretty alarmed and sure he was going downhill rapidly but the nursing staff were all very gung-ho. He died the following week, before I could see him again.

I am sorry for your loss.
When mum was taken into hospital with pneumonia, I asked if this was the end but no-one said she was dying. They did say we weren't to give her water as she couldn't swallow. We ignored that and let her have sips. I'm glad we did.
The consultant told us there were geriatric wards where she would go once she was better.
Only one young nurse told me that my mum reminded her of her own gran when she was dying.
I was relieved as mum would have much preferred to slip away than linger in a ward.
She slipped away the following morning.

Lily65 my condolences. It's when everything goes quiet after our loved one's death that we start brooding and questioning things. When it's all happening we do our best and usually have other people to care for and so much to do.
When it's all over, the grief kicks in bringing a myriad of doubts and regrets.
I do sympathise, I was very much the same after my mother's death last year

I have the opposite Lily My Dad of almost 92 and living alone and managing pretty well with Carers but was very unexpectedly diagnosed with terminal stomach cancer He was all alone after the endoscopy when he was told with no hint of kindness that he could have no treatment and would die shortly
I was furious that he was not told in a much better way with someone (me as there was no one else) with him or better still I was told as his next of kin and I could have told him or not told him as I deemed right for him My Dad would never have asked, I know him so well and from that moment he gave up, and died a nasty death within three weeks missing the reunion of him with his grandchildren (coming from across the world in two cases) and which he had paid All he needed was to live for three months and I know he would have without that shock news

Yes, you go from hardly being able to think to having too much time to think.

I needed a few counselling sessions to get some of the thoughts (and experiences) manageable in my own head.

Eg, we donated the collection from the funeral to the hospice. I had such a lot to deal with, the journeys back and forth, wheeling elderly mother about and worrying she was unsafe, a stream of different staff with different messages in the hospital. Some were forthright and some gave false hope.

It's all catching up with me now.

So sorry Lily65, it sounds as if the staff were caring but ill trained. There is a serious need for medical staff to understand that how we leave this world is every bit as important as how we enter it. There is a scene in the film about the artist Turner were he gently eases his father's death. It is so beautifully done and I think that many youngsters need to watch it. This modern idea that death is to be fought against at all costs needs to be tempered with the understanding that a kind gentle death with dignity and compassion is so important.
I do hope you can look past the last days your father had and just remember him as you would prefer. Those ghastly last days do begin to dim after a while and you will just remember him and the good times. All the very best.