Dad's death, many questions

So sorry to hear about your Dad Lily, you have my sympathy.
I think Nurses/Carers etc are not really given enough training in end of life care which is so important to the patient and their relatives. Everyone deals with this differently of course and sometimes it's difficult for staff to gauge the level of support needed. I'm sorry you felt the support was not there. I don't understand your last comment about money though.

I don't think it's about money as it doesn't save money to be falsely cheerful. I think it's a modern cultural thing which can be inappropriate. When my Dad was very ill a young physio was trying to get him up. I asked her if she was aware that, as well as the stroke he was admitted for, he had lung cancer and other conditions and I did not think it was appropriate. She did stop the agressive treatment then.

I am so sorry for your loss , we always wonder if things should have been different , but think what would have happened if your dear Father had been allowed to stop moving , he could have developed painful bedsores or clots .
It is more expensive to keep someone in a hospital bed

Lily, I am so sorry you have lost your Dad. We are never ready for the end when it comes no matter how ill they were or how prolonged the final stages.
In reply to your thoughts about why they did not just let him go, it is absolutely not about the money, if it were they would have sent him home to die and he would have died sooner. Rather it is about the medical professions' and their mission to preserve life at all costs and I don't just mean the financial costs

I can't remember where I read it, but someone wrote 'look at the person, not the illness'. I am glad your Dad was comfortable and so well looked after in her final weeks.

I am so sorry for your loss xx

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I don't understand your comments about your father's death 'being all about money.'
It would seem to me that the medical staff gave the best possible care to your elderly father and didn't abandon treatment or hope, and leave him alone in a side ward.
I have been most impressed by the treatment given to an elderly friend of eighty, still mostly unconscious from a stroke seven weeks ago; his team are in regular attendance and are trying everything to restore him to health. What the treatment must cost I cannot imagine, and doubt if he woulf have received similar if he was for example, in America.

I suspect that nursing staff are more used to trying to get people better and to ignore the inevitable, though it's well meaning.
I would say be happy that he was in a hospice where there is more understanding that we must all meet our end at some point. He isn't suffering anymore but sorry for your loss.

Sorry for your loss.

Not all hospital staff are trained in end of life care. It sounds as if they were doing their best to keep him comfortable.

My Mother died in a Hospice the staff were absolutely amazing the kindness, empathy and professionalism was faultless to both my darling mother and our family.

Thanks for your kind wishes. It means a lot. I didn't express myself well.

There was no place at the hospice which relies on donations. I wish his last weeks could have been a gentle easing away from life rather than the rather fraught situation we had. Thanks.

I think, when someone we love dies, most of us look back and wish that some aspect of it could have been different.

My mother died in hospital and I wished afterwards that she could have been at home. My husband died at home and I wondered afterwards if he would have been better off in a hospice.

Questioning is a normal part of grieving.

Can I gently suggest that you might ask for donations in his name to go to your local hospice. It can be a comfort to think that you are helping someone else who is now in the same situation.

So sorry Lily65, it sounds as if the staff were caring but ill trained. There is a serious need for medical staff to understand that how we leave this world is every bit as important as how we enter it. There is a scene in the film about the artist Turner were he gently eases his father's death. It is so beautifully done and I think that many youngsters need to watch it. This modern idea that death is to be fought against at all costs needs to be tempered with the understanding that a kind gentle death with dignity and compassion is so important.
I do hope you can look past the last days your father had and just remember him as you would prefer. Those ghastly last days do begin to dim after a while and you will just remember him and the good times. All the very best.

Eg, we donated the collection from the funeral to the hospice. I had such a lot to deal with, the journeys back and forth, wheeling elderly mother about and worrying she was unsafe, a stream of different staff with different messages in the hospital. Some were forthright and some gave false hope.

It's all catching up with me now.

Yes, you go from hardly being able to think to having too much time to think.

I needed a few counselling sessions to get some of the thoughts (and experiences) manageable in my own head.

I have the opposite Lily My Dad of almost 92 and living alone and managing pretty well with Carers but was very unexpectedly diagnosed with terminal stomach cancer He was all alone after the endoscopy when he was told with no hint of kindness that he could have no treatment and would die shortly
I was furious that he was not told in a much better way with someone (me as there was no one else) with him or better still I was told as his next of kin and I could have told him or not told him as I deemed right for him My Dad would never have asked, I know him so well and from that moment he gave up, and died a nasty death within three weeks missing the reunion of him with his grandchildren (coming from across the world in two cases) and which he had paid All he needed was to live for three months and I know he would have without that shock news

Lily65 my condolences. It's when everything goes quiet after our loved one's death that we start brooding and questioning things. When it's all happening we do our best and usually have other people to care for and so much to do.
When it's all over, the grief kicks in bringing a myriad of doubts and regrets.
I do sympathise, I was very much the same after my mother's death last year

I am sorry for your loss.
When mum was taken into hospital with pneumonia, I asked if this was the end but no-one said she was dying. They did say we weren't to give her water as she couldn't swallow. We ignored that and let her have sips. I'm glad we did.
The consultant told us there were geriatric wards where she would go once she was better.
Only one young nurse told me that my mum reminded her of her own gran when she was dying.
I was relieved as mum would have much preferred to slip away than linger in a ward.
She slipped away the following morning.

My dad died 45 years ago, in hospital. I visited him and was pretty alarmed and sure he was going downhill rapidly but the nursing staff were all very gung-ho. He died the following week, before I could see him again.

I guess they are not to say in case they get it wrong and are in more trouble maryhoffman37
While there's life there's hope sort of approach?
It can't have been easy

My mother died last week. She was in hospital for something else (about to be discharged) and she contracted pneumonia, partly because her immune system was low. We knew she didn't want to be resuscitated, but fortunately she had made a living will spelling out in the clearest terms that she didn't want invasive care to prolong her life.

The staff at the hospital (St Peter's, Chertsey) were amazing, they checked with her (she couldn't talk by then, but could write shakily) and with us and simply made her comfortable. They couldn't have been kinder to her and to us.

In the end she slipped away just four days after they had first said, "You've got a bit of a cough."

So sorry Lily65; it shouldn't have been like that, and it's true that many staff have little training in end-of-life care. Not many people realise that you can contact the local Palliative Care Team for input if someone is likely to die within the next 12 months. If you have Lasting Power of Attorney for the person, staff must pay heed to your wishes for care as if you were that person. Finally, there a Government Report: One Chance to Get it Right (improvements to care in the last days and hours of life) available as a PDF document on www.gov.uk

Justanotherwannabe so sorry for your loss; it sounds as if the end was treated well though, it's good to hear that there were well-trained and caring staff there.

My own experiences with hospitals is not good. My FIL died in there, BIL and MIL too. It was absolutely clear that MIL would die before long (estimated in hours) so in their wisdom they decided to place her in a ward where all and sundry could here her rattling, dying breaths which incidently lasted about 12 hours. Other patients were very unsettled with the (loud) noisy breaths in the middle of the night but nurses took no notice. We went home for a short break from the chaos & desperation and she died just after we left. Really bad, to put someone on a ward in that condition.

My neighbour is suffering with a great deal of guilt following her mother's death last year. She visited her in hospital when the terminal cancer took a turn for the worse and - like others have said on here - she was told not to give her water. She didn't understand it at the time but was too distressed to question it. Now she feels she should have ignored the staff or at least asked why, but of course it's too late now. Maybe the staff feel they are doing it for the right reasons, but it seems uneccesarily cruel to me.