Dealing with anger

There is not much negative I can say about DH, that he doesn't know anyway and I haven't had a bit of a mutter to someone about - like his untidiness and incapacity to shut doors, drawers, anything that opens and...... -thats the bit he doesn't do.

Many thanks to everyone and to those who have pm'd me. I have ordered the book above and also got in touch with CRUSE local branch. They helped me in the immediate aftermath of his death and were very helpful so I know what they can offer and will seek that help again. Many thanks to all who have posted.

It is also often better to be able to offload to total strangers (as so often happens on GN) if you don’t feel happy about expressing negative opinions about the departed to people who knew him.
Swings and roundabouts- what suits some people doesn’t suit others, but it doesn’t mean it is not right, just not right fir you.

Msida:

'What purpose will it serve for the people on the bereavement site to talk about the negative side of their deceased partners'

It's just so fake and unnatural to only mention the positives and suppress all the negatives - so your need to talk about the person as they really were is simply not met.

I once said something negative to a friend - who responded 'You're confused' , was visibly irritated - and swiftly changed the subject. It's upsetting when you're 'not allowed' to express your thoughts.

How honest you are Whiff and clear sighted.

I like to remember people warts and all - that is what made them them. I have not lost my husband, although he did try to shed his mortal coil last year, with a serious illness.

After my sister died my parents saw her, in memory, as perfect in every way. My youngest sister and I have always consciously remembered her, as the real person she was and all the things about her that drove us nuts; her unpunctuality, her untidiness, as well as all that was good, her gentle charm and thoughtful ways. I hope we remember the real person and not some plaster saint.

Personally that is how I would want to be remembered.

Lucky, I haven’t felt anger, but every other emotion. No marriage is perfect, whatever people say, I think sometimes when people die we feel their loss so much we put them on pedestals. My husband died in the last days of December 2004, I can’t speak of his illness even now, it was brutal, I prefer not to got there.
We were the best of friends and we trusted each other, to me there was no one else like him, but we had our moments, people do, it would be boring if every day was the same. I regret some of the silly things I made a fuss of, that my daughter was so difficult and caused him anguish, if I could have my time back I would do some things differently. The past is just that, it is now and what’ve have learnt that matters, you owe it to yourself to seize the day, not always easy but it does get better. I think of life has a road we are all travelling, fir a long stretch of it I had him and we were happy. If you can think of the good times you had, not those awful times you had with him, that was his responsibility not yours, you handled it at the time the best way you could. Perhaps. Others might have walked but you kept going and held the family together. Be kind to yourself you deserve it.

Some really good advise here. I will be buying the book recommended

What I don't understand about threads on gransnet is why it always ends up as certain members taking sides with others and in turn making other peoples comments less or more important than others

The thread then becomes a confrontational place and not about the posters issues and concerns

We all have our own opinions and as long as they are not intended to hurt anyone they should be left

Whiff chose to give lots of comments on my comments and disagreeing with them and others went on about some other comments, what purpose has that solved

I think it best to post your own comment and leave it to the person who created the thread to work out what best for them

Just saying

Beautifully written Whiff.

Luckygirl3 I believe V3ra is right. You dealt with unacceptable behaviour in the best way you thought. Now, older and wiser and after some reflection maybe you'd do things differently today. It's all water under the bridge now so it is best to concentrate on the present.
If you find it hard not to dwell on the past , this may help you
mindfulspot.com/stop-dwelling-on-the-past/

It is common for the bereaved to view their former spouse through rose coloured spectacles. Here's an amusing example.. My SiL's mother recounts her husband by describing the wonderful Christmas Eve meal he prepared for the family every year. Her son says his father actually did B..... all!

Lastly, maybe the online course is not right for you??

... but I made the best decisions I could at the time.

Luckygirl3 you've said it yourself: you did your best, you could do no more.

Looking back now, with the wisdom of years and time to consider, you can be more objective and think of ways you could have done something better.
But that was then, and this is now. Forgive yourself and let those thoughts go.

Luckygirl may I recommend this?
Anger after bereavement is perfectly normal and as Whiff says, being dead does not turn a person into a saint.
I think it is important to recognise the failings as well as the virtues, the bad as well as the good and to remember you loved him because of who he was. The latter months and years were not him speaking, but the illness.
I won’t go into detail of the many things I feel guilty about, the times I prayed my face did not reveal my impatience or weariness or, yes, anger.
What has happened though for all of us is that the loved one is “frozen in time” with no chance of us apologising or making up for whatever lapses we may feel guilty about. And I am with you 100% on not wanting our children memories of him to be tainted- although if they are honest, they knew the score. It’s just that he’s not here to defend himself so we feel we have to
Never speak ill of the dead? That’s not being honest. Perfect marriages? Never a cross word? Really?
I have read so many posts here from people who are so eloquently expressing my own thoughts. Whiff, Grany,GrannySomerset you have all reassured me.
Grieving is not easy, it is not predictable or linear and while it is true there are several (7?) stages, you do not go through each one once and then tick it off as done.
This book is very good, do try it, but the main things is -
Don’t beat yourself up

Msida in my experience part of grieving you do think of the negatives as well as the positives. We are human beings not robots. Even after all my years as a widow that doesn't stop me thinking of negatives as well as positives. But that doesn't make me a bad person far from it.

Just because a person dies doesn't make them into a saint. I am a practical person and don't look at life through rose tinted spectacles.

When I die I would hate for people to make me out someone I am not.

What ever gets someone through another day without the other half of themselves it doesn't matter what it is. As long as it's what they need.

When my husband died may present and future died to. And it's hard making a new present and future and it doesn't get any easier as I get older . Especially things that have happened in my life since he died.

Grief is different for everyone. There is no one grief. It's just how each person feels. Grief is complicated and for me never ending. I just cope better.

I think anger is a natural part of grieving
MissAdventure makes a good point

Perhaps you could talk to someone from CRUSE, Luckygirl. They may be of more help than an informal group of bereaved people talking about their perfect partners.
www.cruse.org.uk/understanding-grief/effects-of-grief/five-stages-of-grief/#:~:text=The%20five%20stages%20%E2%80%93%20denial%2C%20anger,one%20stage%20to%20the%20other.

I think its quite important to remember someone as they were, warts and all.

Luckygirl, I am so sorry to read this. All of your feelings are quite normal and part of grieving. Reading them did make me wonder if you would find either professional or at least trained support helpful.
Groups of people who have had similar experiences can be useful, but they can also have lots of problems as people dump emotions on those who are not trained or experienced in dealing with them.
I would step aside from this group which seems unhelpful to you, and consider where might best find support as you grieve. I hope you can find it and come to peace.In the meantime, take care of yourself and do things tht make you feel better.

Have you never heard the phrase. Don't speak I'll of the dead

What purpose will it serve for the people on the bereavement site to talk about the negative side of their deceased partners

They are on a bereavement site because they loved and miss their other halves. If you don't feel that way that's fine and you will have your reasons, so perhaps it's not the right site for you..

Take me for example, my marriage wasn't a happy one but when I lost my husband after being married to him for 39 years I did miss him, I felt I should have tried harder, although I am fully aware of his faults, we all have them I still miss him

So it will serve no purpose for you or I to ponder on the negatives

Let it All go, what's done is done wash your hands of the past and walk calmly and without bitterness into The Future

I did notice that, once somebody has died - they suddenly become a saint. Conversations with the children (and his siblings) became strangely stilted. It's a case of 'Better not mention that day he swore at the district nurse'

- or that time he suddenly kicked his daughter - so I kicked him back very hard (and he was so frail and ill then). Of course, we had the odd squabble even when he was well - as, I'm sure, most people do.

There's always guilt with grieving, that wish that you could have done better, been more patient and understanding etc. - even with the best of marriages. You have plenty of time to judge your past performance - evaluate and give yourself a 'B minus, could do better'.

The fact remains that I'm not a patient, understanding, selfless, giving paragon of virtue - that's somebody else, not me!

I’m sorry, Luckygirl, to read your posts here. I hope this is a short stage of grief you are going through and that you will soon be able to move on to a more appreciative memory stage.

I think anger is a natural part of grieving.
There are stages, supposedly leading to acceptance as the last stage, but just to make it worse, you never know when one stage overlaps another.
I struggle a lot with anger.

I belong to a bereaved parents group, and I feel enraged sometimes by the other members.

Luckygirl just take it one day at a time. My husband wasn't perfect by any means but neither was I. Looking back would have done things differently but we do the best we can at the time.

We can't help but look back over our lives. And regret some things. But what I have learnt we can't change the past but today and tomorrow is what we want it to be.

And one day you will be able to look at things differently it can take months or years. The important thing is to give yourself that time.

Breavenment counselling was useless for me as the woman running the group had done a course was married and had no idea what I was going through. But perhaps one to one counselling might help you. ?

to those who have also been through this experience; and many thanks for telling your stories. It truly has helped me to realise that the difficult feelings about his behaviour are not just mine alone and that others are widows from an imperfect marriage .... imperfect because we all are.

Some days at my gloomiest I think it was all a big mistake, but then I tell myself that there were lots of good things. Grieving is very complex - it is not just being sad and missing someone - for me it is about re-evaluating the past, and I am finding that very hard. Some of the things he did are things that many might simply have not forgiven him; but I made the best decisions I could at the time.

Luckygirl3 and Grany and anyone else who has recently lost someone they love.

My husband died in 2004 aged 47. Ours wasn't a perfect marriage there is no such thing. We both did things that drove the other mad. But he was the perfect man for me. We argued but it was always over stupid things never the important things. In fact I think he used to pick a fight just so we could make up.

We always knew he was going to die when he was first diagnosed with grade 4 malignant melanoma in January 2001 and given 5 years to live. Only me and our children knew this as he didn't want anyone to treat him differently. So after the cancer was removed and had his skin graft. We let people believe he would be ok. He was given the terminal news in October 2003 and given 4 months to 2 years but we knew it was months. He had 3 tumour's in his right lung, 1 in his chest and 2 in his brain by the optical nerve. For years we had lived with the sword of Damocles hanging over us. When it dropped it was devastating . So we had to tell everyone.

The sort of man he was he wouldn't give up going to work until near the end of November. I had stopped him driving in October it's a wonder there was a roof on the house when he exploded . But he was going blind. It wasn't safe. So the men who worked for him took it in turns to fetch him bring him home.

He wrote a letter and a copy was given to all his employees and he wrote one to all their customers saying the company would go on with his business partner. I was there the day the men had the letter . It was heartbreaking to see and hear hard working men cry.

My husband and his business partner had rented the factory and started the business January 2000. He has his biopsy just after Christmas that year. Because my husband was a a good business man they made a profit every year he lived.

I will get to the point but just so you can see the sort of man he was. His cancer was on the right side of his face by his eye they had to cut out a large oval and took the skin from the left side of his neck. The first time someone asked about his scar he said he was glassed no one ever asked again. He couldn't have coped with pity.

We knew it would be his last Christmas and talked about his funeral. He told us to do want we wanted. We are atheists so it wouldn't a religious service.

He decided he wanted to get to his birthday in February and he did and died 4 days later. But he was stubborn until the end and fought for ever breath even on full oxygen . I had to tell him to stop and we would be ok he died a few minutes later in our bed with me and the children. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. But I had to let him go. Our children where 20 and 16 I was 45.

I have written more on the pain of lost thread.

Now you have my background . What I have learnt over the also 18 years is that no one grieves the same. What surprised me was the rage and anger I felt it was like I was being consumed by it. And I felt wicked for feeling this but then I realised it was normal we all cope differently with our grief . I have shouted at him for leaving me and swore at him . Felt like I would never stop crying . Didn't want to get up of a morning or get washed or clean my teeth but I did I had to . My husband was a wise man he drove me mad at times but he knew what I needed to live without him and he made me promise some things the main one was to live the best life I can. And I do.

Grief does not get any less in fact in my experience it gets worse as the years go by. You just learn to cope. But even to this day I have times when I just cry my eyes out . But that's ok. What I have learnt is if you want to cry,scream, shout or hit a pillow do it because if you don't you are only hurting yourself. Took me years to realise that. To this day if things have gone wrong in my life I blame him. But I see him standing in front of me with that stupid grin on his face and know it's ok.

Ever since he died I talk out loud to him every day and it has helped me. Perhaps it will help you.

Our wasn't a perfect marriage no such thing but we were perfect for eachother we were born stubborn and had tempers . We where together for 29 years married 22 when he died .
I lost half of myself the moment he took his last breath and haven't been whole since. My heart broke and has never mended . Still go by Mrs as far as I am concerned I am still married still wear my wedding ring.

Like I said are marriage wasn't perfect but neither were we but we where half of eachother and together we made a whole.

Hopefully this has made sense as I do tend to ramble but hope it may have made sense to someone.

Dear Luckygirl, I so understand how you feel. Three weeks on from DH’s death the last two awful years are fading a little and I can examine our almost sixty years together a little more objectively.

It is said that often one partner loves and the other is loved, and I do feel that DH didn’t know how essential he was to me or how much I cared. I took his uncritical love and support for granted and am bereft without it. Neither of us was a perfect marriage partner (two independent only children) but we were right together most of the time, and could neither imagine being married to anyone else.

I am trying to celebrate the many good things, to forget the less good and remember the handsome young man I fell in love with. Hope you can too.

Luckygirl3

I joined an online group for those who have been bereaved. I find it impossible to believe that they all had perfect partners who were paragons of virtue. But so it would seem from the posts.

Am I the only widow whose partner was not perfect; who did things that I find hard to forgive? I know that latterly some of his unacceptable behaviour was illness-induced and those things I can forgive - he did not really know what he was doing. These things were hard to bear.

But even before then, although we were solid as a couple, there were behaviours that caused me distress. And when I look back I realise I could have handled some of these things better - hindsight is a great thing - but too late now to set these right. Am I the only person who finds it hard not to dwell on these things?

I lost my husband nearly five years ago and joined an online group called WayUp. I kind of get what you mean, but I think the nature of grief - especially in the early stages of bereavement - is that you tend to focus on all that was good about the person you lost, and you do tend to look through rose tinted specs. I had forty happy years of marriage, but it wasn’t perfect - neither of us were. The problems we did have in our life together were due to selfish behaviour on both parts and there are some things that I look back on now and with hindsight I realise I was mostly at fault - some were also very firmly on him. I dare say if I had passed away first and my husband had been the one left alone, he would have thought the same.

I’m so sorry for your loss. You have a hard time ahead of you and unfortunately there is no easy or quick way around grief - you have to work through it, and it’s the nature of the beast to throw up a rollercoaster of emotions, including the one responsible for your post. As you say, it’s too late now to put things right, but you will tend to dwell on it until you make sense of this stage of your grief. Anger is part of the process, just make sure that you don’t get stuck in the cycle and do ask for help if you need it. I had counselling after I was widowed. It was arranged with NHS trust mental health services via my GP. I had to wait a while, but it was well worth it - it’s not for everyone because it’s hard and you have to be prepared to engage with it and face up to difficult issues. If the website you are on is WayUp, try to engage more with people who are further on in their journey - there’s a wealth of experience out there and if I remember rightly, people were only too willing to share and support one another. If you haven’t discovered WayUp yet, google it and see what you think. Good luck.?

Luckygirl
I remember very very clearly all the behaviours you told us about, so common sense tells me there was a lot worse.
I truly thought you were a saint. I couldn’t and I wouldn’t suffer what you did.
I know we have to separate the person from the disease but we are not all Mother Teresa’s.
We watched The Father this week. We both said to each other we couldn’t do it. We are both honest that we know ourselves and know that we would end up hating that person.
I know that sounds harsh and cruel but I know me.
If every one was like the lady I garden for it wouldn’t be a problem at all, she is the sweetest happiest soul in her little world.
But then I have the neighbour that I sometimes support. She can be nasty.