The signs of acute illness are not a medical mystery and many lay persons can recognise them
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Bereavement
Controlling daughter in law regarding the death of her father
(239 Posts)am a 66 year old single woman. I have 1 married son and 2 grandchildren.
I am writing this to try and understand why my daughter in law (DIL) is bitterly angry with me regarding the passing of her father.
I want to make this as brief as possible but it is a very sad and convoluted story…
I went to see father of my DIL who has been battling cancer after a bone marrow transplant.
I have 35 years of medical experience and upon seeing his condition I knew he needed to be in the hospital. I told his wife what I thought and also called my DIL to suggest admitting him, as I felt he was very sick.
5 days later he falls at home and both his wife and DIL are able to lift him up and drive to the hospital.
Once there, he was immediately admitted into ICU. His confirmed diagnosis was Sepsis.
From that point on, his condition deteriorated. He was intubated, given several antibiotics was in Septic Shock and finally passed away 19 days later.
This man was a wonderful human being and good friend to me.
4 days prior to his death, his family decided to have him extubated and placed in Comfort Care where he would die comfortably.
On this day the family said their goodbyes, fully expecting him to pass away within hours.
Because they all assumed that he would pass away quickly, my son and DIL told their children 6&8 years old that their grandfather had passed away.
The family was awaiting a call from from the hospital telling them he had passed. No call came. He was still alive and breathing on his own.
The prior evening I talked to my son who was tearful and told me they had said their goodbyes.
I was grieving as well and called the following day to see if I could join them as I wanted to see my son and comfort him. I was told no. My DIL and her mother were not wanting any visitors.
I had made plans to go and see this man on that Thursday. I work Monday thru Wednesday and Thursday was my first opportunity to do so.
I called the hospital to confirm that he was allowed visitors and was told yes.
I was relieved he was still alive as I needed to see him to say my goodbyes to help with my grieving and to gain closure.
While in his room a nurse came in and told me they were moving him out of ICU.
Thinking I was being helpful, I texted my son and let him know.
The following is the text I received. I have omitted titled all names with * symbol
“I am utterly shocked. I am asking that you never, ever tell ***that you visited him today. *** and * explicitly planned to be the last ones to be with him. *** is now not only painfully grieving, but now extremely angry. I am asking that you please do not contact either of them, and please leave now. **** already called the hospital and is taking ****back now. Again, * is not aware that anyone visited today and *** and I are asking that it must remain that way.”
I received 2 more texts asking for confirmation that I had left the hospital and ordering me to not contact them as they needed time and space due to the difficult position I put them in.
I was in total shock…
This angry text from my son is when I learned of his wife and mother in law’s “plan” to be the last ones to be with him.
I left the hospital sobbing. I was so confused.
By the time I got home, my confusion had turned to anger. Number one I was shocked to receive such a hateful text from my son and number 2 had no reasonable reason why…
I honored his order of not contacting him but not because he ordered me to but because if I had spoken to him I would have cut him to shreds with my tongue and knew that doing so would only compound the stress he was under.
My DIL’s father lived 4 more days.
I waited 2 weeks to contact my son and asked him to make arrangements to come and talk to me. He came yesterday and I finally had the answers I was looking for…
He told me that he and my DIL think that I overstepped my bounds and deliberately “ inserted” myself in the dying process and grief of her father…
He then told me that my DIL accused me of being selfish, self absorbed and was only thinking about myself…
I told my son that I only agreed with her 3rd accusation because , yes, I did go to see him because I needed to see him to say my goodbyes ease my grieving heart and to have closure. I then asked my son if he believed that wrongly inserted myself in their situation and he said yes. I asked him if be believes that I am selfish and self absorbed and he said no.
He told me that I should have called him and inform him of my plan to see his FIL. At this point I knew exactly what they wanted from me. I again told him I didn’t understand( even though I did) and decided that he was going to have to look me in the eye and tell me exactly why… he told me that I should have “asked” them if I could visit him. I asked him if they actually believed that I needed their permission to see him and he said yes…
I told him that I do not need anyone’s permission to do anything, including this. I told him that my visit with his FIL was between he and I only.
My son told me that he and my DIL assumed I had enough common sense to realize that when he told me over the phone that they said their goodbyes I was to understand that they were to be the last ones to see him…
I was dumbfounded and asked my son to explain to me just how I was to figure that out after only being told they had said their goodbyes…
He immediately admitted that it was wrong of him to assume I would figure it out.
I told him that his wife and MIL should have planned their “plan” a little more thoughtfully and made sure that anyone who wanted to say goodbye would not be able to. A sign on his door stating the family wanted no visitors…informing the hospital phone operators that for anyone who called was to be told that he was not taking visitors. I did call the hospital to make sure he was allowed visitors and I was told yes.
My son responded with this”. With all the stress they were under how can you possibly think that they would even think of doing that”
I told him that if their “plan” was that important to them, they should have thought it thru and took the proper steps to insure the plan remained uninterrupted.
My son then tells me that his wife and her mother decided ahead of time who they would or would not allow to see their dad and husband..
I told him that obviously I was one of the not allowed persons. He immediately regretted what came out of his mouth…
I laughed a little and told him that after learning this I am even happier that I went to see him and that I will NEVER regret my decision.
I was told that his wife does not want me to come to there house as her anger toward me is palatable. I told him I was just fine with that as I had no desire at all to see her but that I wanted and needed to see my grandchildren an he agreed to bring them to me.
I told my son to make sure his wife understands that I will NEVER compromise who I am and what my beliefs are to make her feel better. I told him the burden is on her to contact me.
I told him this will remain a situation where she and I will have to agree to disagree. I told him I have moved on and that If she wants to live in anger she owns the problem, not me.
I asked him if his wife is actively trying to ban me from their lives and he said no. That she told him she wants me in their lives and wants me to be a grandmother to their kids….
Not too sure I believe her though…
My son told me it is very hard being in the “ middle”. I went to him and hugged him and told him I loved him and he broke down and cried.
I posted this looking for answers as I truly believe I was within my rights whereas my DIL believes I was not…
No. The first "thing that comes through" is a woman suffering from an emotional crisis and relationship problem.
What a lot of scolds!
It sounds good to me. In moderation of course! And the extra layer of fat will keep me warm. Thanks doc.?
Germanshepherdsmum
Well Norah, as it seems you ‘don’t need a proper degree’, maybe we can rely on you to dispense some medical advice on here? ?
Right. Medical advice.
Cake for all, a feel good food.
Could cure depression regarding cold winter on the way.
Joke. Before the post police become angry. Just a joke.
Mal
Please go and get therapy for the sake of your relationships.
Quite!
If this post is genuine then I find the depth of "grief" shown by the OP for the father of her DIL rather suspicious. If the mother of either my SIL or DIL appeared so distraught and heartbroken if my DH dies and even visited him in hospital without my knowledge I would certainly want to know what on earth was going on. It would definitely add to my own grief and everything else I was trying to deal with. There's been no mention of the funeral or is that part still be written?
Medical positions are very well regulated in the US, thank you very much
Well Norah, as it seems you ‘don’t need a proper degree’, maybe we can rely on you to dispense some medical advice on here? ?
Norah, ?
Mal2
Yes, I do. I started working for physicians at age 16. You do not need a formal degree to work in medicine. I learned cake design and floral design in preparation of purchasing a B&B so I could do weddings. My other skills are personal but found that it was easy to sell items out of my B&B.
Oh wonderful. I have worked in medicine.
I was done with school at 16, had my first baby at 17, and was tending to my children's, grandchildren's, and great grandchildren's wounds from then on to forever.
If I need a position, I'll add "worked in medicine" to my CV.
I think perhaps Mal2 is in the US or somewhere that side of the Atlantic, judging by language and timing of posts. Perhaps customs around dying are different there. Maybe the hospital staff didn't communicate very well with family, explaining that it sometimes takes a number of days to die, even when all supports are withdrawn. If they had known that, they might not have been so quick to say their goodbyes, withdraw and tell grandchildren he had died!
Also, in the US, medicine not as heavily regulated as in Europe so someone without qualifications might be able to work in doctor's office, though unlikely in more than an administrative role.
It's a strange story, but sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!
eazybee I thought too that it was no so much about the death, sad though it is, of the father-in-law of Mal's son, it was more about the dislike of the DIL and her mother.
It's a very sad time for them and I'm sorry, but to make it about yourself and your feelings of righteousness about your behaviour at this difficult time is very wrong indeed, OP.
That seems blunt but they are the ones who have lost a dearly loved member of their family.
Take a step back, think about how you would feel under those circumstances and apologise.
I can't believe the story is true but it seems as though the emotions expressed are real; what comes through is a deep-seated dislike verging on hatred of a daughter in law and her mother by the mother in law with an over-powering ego.
Germanshepherdsmum
Or which planet, DaisyAnne.
Or which planet, DaisyAnne.
Zoejory
NanaPower
I agree. Its horrible leaving the poor man by himself when he was dying. When my Mum was dying I stayed until she passed. You can't just put them in hospital, say last goodbyes, then control who can or can't visit.
You certainly can
Absolutely! It is the business only of the Widow and his child. Personally I'd hate to have my son think he'd be obligated to spend hours / days at my bedside waiting for me to die. Who would ask that of their family? I've watched my Mum gasping for breath - it's not a celebration, it's not the way to define a life.
And remember, we are getting the OP's take on things here, and who is to say she has been told the facts of the matter by her son who (poor bugger, by all accounts) is trying not to antagonise his Mum / his wife. What if the direct family had been there all the time, the OP's next statement could be - if they were there why couldn't I be there?
OP is clearly a person who sees things as black / white and there is no grey.
OP knows best for everyone-
-- the DiL who should have listened when the OP with her 35 years of watching ER/Casualty knew better.
-- the DiL's mother who the OP says is hopeless and needs to have decisions made for her - presumably by the OP.
-- the son who has been "told" by OP ... gee, where to start, what hasn't OP told him
... the son who has said he is stuck in the middle but heck, OP clearly doesn't like the DiL or her family, being of a lower class so hey, why not try and get the son to chose between the OP and his wife.
OP, behave yourself now. Leave the grieving family alone, and stop trying to make this all about you.
I wonder which country this is coming from?
This has to be a work of fiction.
NanaPower
I agree. Its horrible leaving the poor man by himself when he was dying. When my Mum was dying I stayed until she passed. You can't just put them in hospital, say last goodbyes, then control who can or can't visit.
You certainly can
There is an ongoing legal problem surrounding who has the right to be the primary carer or companion to a dying person. It may happen in the more extreme cases that an unmarried (perhaps same sex ) couple are split up by the legal relatives during terminal care.
I agree. Its horrible leaving the poor man by himself when he was dying. When my Mum was dying I stayed until she passed. You can't just put them in hospital, say last goodbyes, then control who can or can't visit.
Mal2
Yes, I do. I started working for physicians at age 16. You do not need a formal degree to work in medicine. I learned cake design and floral design in preparation of purchasing a B&B so I could do weddings. My other skills are personal but found that it was easy to sell items out of my B&B.
You are having a laugh aren't you Mal2? On reading this post I literally spat out a mouthful of coffee, I do hope you get some sort of contract from a Publisher or Broadcaster as your imagination is very unique. I think my favourite line of yours so far is "My other skills are personal but found that it was easy to sell items out of my B&B." Personal Services was a hugely entertaining film in the late 80's starring Julie Walters. She didn't have any formal degrees either but her informal qualifications gave her an entertaining life. I'm glued to this Post.
Dipping in to say, my opinion, the dying man disliked the OP but was polite and friendly to her face as, you know, extended family. Having OP going to his dying bedside, when having specifically been told previously that the DiL and her mother didn't want "visitors" at home - if I though someone my dying parent disliked went to their bedside I'd be pretty bloody furious!
OP - I don't think anyone has said you are a horrible person but jeez, lady! Dig deep and find some empathy!
You know, you know you've overstepped boundaries, don't you. By posting this. And your statement -
I told my son to make sure his wife understands that I will NEVER compromise who I am and what my beliefs are to make her feel better. I told him the burden is on her to contact me.
And then you send her a hand painted card. So you know.
And it's no-one's business as to the actions of the direct family during the process of the dying man. Some people can cope and some can't. They don't need to be apologising or giving reasons to anyone. Not your business.
If this is some sort of fiction it's pretty poor. Something like a bad soap where everyone thinks they know better and look down on people.
OP, again, I'm not saying you are a horrible person but I will say you are making a bed for yourself which is going to be cold and lonely if you don't get some real life perspective!
Reading the post of 00:05:01, you are so full of yourself and your supposed achievements I wonder if you actually have any friends? I’m astounded at your (unearned) feeling of superiority.
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