eazybee I thought too that it was no so much about the death, sad though it is, of the father-in-law of Mal's son, it was more about the dislike of the DIL and her mother.
It's a very sad time for them and I'm sorry, but to make it about yourself and your feelings of righteousness about your behaviour at this difficult time is very wrong indeed, OP.
That seems blunt but they are the ones who have lost a dearly loved member of their family.
Take a step back, think about how you would feel under those circumstances and apologise.
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Bereavement
Controlling daughter in law regarding the death of her father
(239 Posts)am a 66 year old single woman. I have 1 married son and 2 grandchildren.
I am writing this to try and understand why my daughter in law (DIL) is bitterly angry with me regarding the passing of her father.
I want to make this as brief as possible but it is a very sad and convoluted story…
I went to see father of my DIL who has been battling cancer after a bone marrow transplant.
I have 35 years of medical experience and upon seeing his condition I knew he needed to be in the hospital. I told his wife what I thought and also called my DIL to suggest admitting him, as I felt he was very sick.
5 days later he falls at home and both his wife and DIL are able to lift him up and drive to the hospital.
Once there, he was immediately admitted into ICU. His confirmed diagnosis was Sepsis.
From that point on, his condition deteriorated. He was intubated, given several antibiotics was in Septic Shock and finally passed away 19 days later.
This man was a wonderful human being and good friend to me.
4 days prior to his death, his family decided to have him extubated and placed in Comfort Care where he would die comfortably.
On this day the family said their goodbyes, fully expecting him to pass away within hours.
Because they all assumed that he would pass away quickly, my son and DIL told their children 6&8 years old that their grandfather had passed away.
The family was awaiting a call from from the hospital telling them he had passed. No call came. He was still alive and breathing on his own.
The prior evening I talked to my son who was tearful and told me they had said their goodbyes.
I was grieving as well and called the following day to see if I could join them as I wanted to see my son and comfort him. I was told no. My DIL and her mother were not wanting any visitors.
I had made plans to go and see this man on that Thursday. I work Monday thru Wednesday and Thursday was my first opportunity to do so.
I called the hospital to confirm that he was allowed visitors and was told yes.
I was relieved he was still alive as I needed to see him to say my goodbyes to help with my grieving and to gain closure.
While in his room a nurse came in and told me they were moving him out of ICU.
Thinking I was being helpful, I texted my son and let him know.
The following is the text I received. I have omitted titled all names with * symbol
“I am utterly shocked. I am asking that you never, ever tell ***that you visited him today. *** and * explicitly planned to be the last ones to be with him. *** is now not only painfully grieving, but now extremely angry. I am asking that you please do not contact either of them, and please leave now. **** already called the hospital and is taking ****back now. Again, * is not aware that anyone visited today and *** and I are asking that it must remain that way.”
I received 2 more texts asking for confirmation that I had left the hospital and ordering me to not contact them as they needed time and space due to the difficult position I put them in.
I was in total shock…
This angry text from my son is when I learned of his wife and mother in law’s “plan” to be the last ones to be with him.
I left the hospital sobbing. I was so confused.
By the time I got home, my confusion had turned to anger. Number one I was shocked to receive such a hateful text from my son and number 2 had no reasonable reason why…
I honored his order of not contacting him but not because he ordered me to but because if I had spoken to him I would have cut him to shreds with my tongue and knew that doing so would only compound the stress he was under.
My DIL’s father lived 4 more days.
I waited 2 weeks to contact my son and asked him to make arrangements to come and talk to me. He came yesterday and I finally had the answers I was looking for…
He told me that he and my DIL think that I overstepped my bounds and deliberately “ inserted” myself in the dying process and grief of her father…
He then told me that my DIL accused me of being selfish, self absorbed and was only thinking about myself…
I told my son that I only agreed with her 3rd accusation because , yes, I did go to see him because I needed to see him to say my goodbyes ease my grieving heart and to have closure. I then asked my son if he believed that wrongly inserted myself in their situation and he said yes. I asked him if be believes that I am selfish and self absorbed and he said no.
He told me that I should have called him and inform him of my plan to see his FIL. At this point I knew exactly what they wanted from me. I again told him I didn’t understand( even though I did) and decided that he was going to have to look me in the eye and tell me exactly why… he told me that I should have “asked” them if I could visit him. I asked him if they actually believed that I needed their permission to see him and he said yes…
I told him that I do not need anyone’s permission to do anything, including this. I told him that my visit with his FIL was between he and I only.
My son told me that he and my DIL assumed I had enough common sense to realize that when he told me over the phone that they said their goodbyes I was to understand that they were to be the last ones to see him…
I was dumbfounded and asked my son to explain to me just how I was to figure that out after only being told they had said their goodbyes…
He immediately admitted that it was wrong of him to assume I would figure it out.
I told him that his wife and MIL should have planned their “plan” a little more thoughtfully and made sure that anyone who wanted to say goodbye would not be able to. A sign on his door stating the family wanted no visitors…informing the hospital phone operators that for anyone who called was to be told that he was not taking visitors. I did call the hospital to make sure he was allowed visitors and I was told yes.
My son responded with this”. With all the stress they were under how can you possibly think that they would even think of doing that”
I told him that if their “plan” was that important to them, they should have thought it thru and took the proper steps to insure the plan remained uninterrupted.
My son then tells me that his wife and her mother decided ahead of time who they would or would not allow to see their dad and husband..
I told him that obviously I was one of the not allowed persons. He immediately regretted what came out of his mouth…
I laughed a little and told him that after learning this I am even happier that I went to see him and that I will NEVER regret my decision.
I was told that his wife does not want me to come to there house as her anger toward me is palatable. I told him I was just fine with that as I had no desire at all to see her but that I wanted and needed to see my grandchildren an he agreed to bring them to me.
I told my son to make sure his wife understands that I will NEVER compromise who I am and what my beliefs are to make her feel better. I told him the burden is on her to contact me.
I told him this will remain a situation where she and I will have to agree to disagree. I told him I have moved on and that If she wants to live in anger she owns the problem, not me.
I asked him if his wife is actively trying to ban me from their lives and he said no. That she told him she wants me in their lives and wants me to be a grandmother to their kids….
Not too sure I believe her though…
My son told me it is very hard being in the “ middle”. I went to him and hugged him and told him I loved him and he broke down and cried.
I posted this looking for answers as I truly believe I was within my rights whereas my DIL believes I was not…
I think perhaps Mal2 is in the US or somewhere that side of the Atlantic, judging by language and timing of posts. Perhaps customs around dying are different there. Maybe the hospital staff didn't communicate very well with family, explaining that it sometimes takes a number of days to die, even when all supports are withdrawn. If they had known that, they might not have been so quick to say their goodbyes, withdraw and tell grandchildren he had died!
Also, in the US, medicine not as heavily regulated as in Europe so someone without qualifications might be able to work in doctor's office, though unlikely in more than an administrative role.
It's a strange story, but sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!
Mal2
Yes, I do. I started working for physicians at age 16. You do not need a formal degree to work in medicine. I learned cake design and floral design in preparation of purchasing a B&B so I could do weddings. My other skills are personal but found that it was easy to sell items out of my B&B.
Oh wonderful. I have worked in medicine.
I was done with school at 16, had my first baby at 17, and was tending to my children's, grandchildren's, and great grandchildren's wounds from then on to forever.
If I need a position, I'll add "worked in medicine" to my CV.
Norah, ?
Well Norah, as it seems you ‘don’t need a proper degree’, maybe we can rely on you to dispense some medical advice on here? ?
Medical positions are very well regulated in the US, thank you very much
If this post is genuine then I find the depth of "grief" shown by the OP for the father of her DIL rather suspicious. If the mother of either my SIL or DIL appeared so distraught and heartbroken if my DH dies and even visited him in hospital without my knowledge I would certainly want to know what on earth was going on. It would definitely add to my own grief and everything else I was trying to deal with. There's been no mention of the funeral or is that part still be written?
Quite!
Mal
Please go and get therapy for the sake of your relationships.
Germanshepherdsmum
Well Norah, as it seems you ‘don’t need a proper degree’, maybe we can rely on you to dispense some medical advice on here? ?
Right. Medical advice.
Cake for all, a feel good food.
Could cure depression regarding cold winter on the way.
Joke. Before the post police become angry. Just a joke.
It sounds good to me. In moderation of course! And the extra layer of fat will keep me warm. Thanks doc.?
No. The first "thing that comes through" is a woman suffering from an emotional crisis and relationship problem.
What a lot of scolds!
The signs of acute illness are not a medical mystery and many lay persons can recognise them
Caleo
The signs of acute illness are not a medical mystery and many lay persons can recognise them
Yes, I agree with that and many patients have experience of symptoms too.
I went to see father of my DIL who has been battling cancer after a bone marrow transplant.
Lots of questions here though.
How long ago had he had the bone marrow transplant?
Usually, after this happens, a patient is kept in isolation in hospital because their immune system will be at nil after the treatment required before a transplant is performed until the immune system recovers.
Presumably, if he was still ill with cancer some time later, the transplant had not worked.
Sepsis is a possibility if a patient's immune system is very low.
If the immune system is not working why were any visitors allowed?
The hospital should warn patients and their families of the symptoms and possibility of sepsis and the need to go to hospital urgently.
Just a few questions from a non-medical person.
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Medical careers in the US are highly regulated. One can become a CNA with a certificate in about 6 months, but that qualifies you to do nothing more than take temperatures and clean bedpans.
Becoming a nurse would involve, at the very least, a 2 year degree for a RN. And that is a starter job. Most RNs look towards furthering their education with a BSN, a 4 year degree. Many BSNs are now continuing education as NP and PA. 6 - 8 years education.
No one would stay as a CNA for 35 years, making only minimum wage. Especially when many hospital systems will support and help pay for a nursing degree back during the nursing shortage of the early 2000s.
I am sorry, someone who spends 35 years in admin is not more qualified then the family in determining the severity of any medical condition at all.
This is all a load of *. To many holes in this story.
I wonder if the immediate family’s plan was to create an impression that this man had already died, for reasons known only to themselves, and not just in respect of the grandchildren, and an unexpected visit by the OP to find him still alive after their “last goodbyes” left them with a dilemma they hadn’t anticipated and a situation they might be called upon to explain.
Far-fetched, I know, but then so is the whole strange situation, and the OP might be in the dark about the reason behind the anger her visit has generated.
I strongly suspect that Delila's suggestion may be correct.
I imagine the DIL and her mother were trying to get some sort of acceptance and closure in their minds. This would comfort them if they felt they had seen him for the last time, he had not uttered any words that they could cling to or remember. So anyone visiting after them may have "snatched" something from them that they hadn't seen, and they feel it was their right to be the only ones with the chance to witness it. So I can totally understand DIL being a little angry, i am afraid i would feel the same. You need to step back and show understanding and compassion to your poor DIL
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Delila
I wonder if the immediate family’s plan was to create an impression that this man had already died, for reasons known only to themselves, and not just in respect of the grandchildren, and an unexpected visit by the OP to find him still alive after their “last goodbyes” left them with a dilemma they hadn’t anticipated and a situation they might be called upon to explain.
Far-fetched, I know, but then so is the whole strange situation, and the OP might be in the dark about the reason behind the anger her visit has generated.
Chapter V
Callistemon You are absolutely right regarding his treatment after the transplant.
I had some major surgery for an ongoing problem when I was in my 30’s, once discharged I was given a list of warning signs to look out for and a number to call should I have any problems.
A bone marrow transplant is a huge undertaking, the aftercare should have been better managed.
I am however thinking this whole story is a wind up.
I don’t think this is necessarily a tall story at all. Certainly as a completely non medical person I spotted that my husband was seriously ill (with sepsis) and I didn’t need qualification for that. It was surprising that it took four days to be diagnosed though, although I guess an infection may have simply been brewing. Visiting the FIL was fine in my opinion as she had not been asked not to go. That’s a ridiculous source of anger. We didn’t want visitors outside our immediate family when my husband was dying, we couldn’t take other people’s upset and grief to be honest. I asked that my AC parents in law did not come over. My husband took many days to die, a hospice nurse told me that some people have a hard time being born and some have a hard time dying. Somehow that made sense. But to leave someone for four days without a family member close by is awful. I was with both of my parents during their last days, day and night with mum in hospital. Day and night with my husband at home. I could no more have left them alone than fly to the moon. So OP, I think you must be American, you seem to have a more blunt approach us Brits are not so used to. I think you didn’t do anything wrong beforehand but you have made the situation much worse by your rigid approach since. Back down, say sorry and get on with life. Be nice! We are all different and we mostly don’t go around considering ourselves above others. That’s not nice at all.
We do not know that the FIL was left alone for 4 days to be honest. There are enough holes in the OP's telling of things that it leaves me to wonder at the truthfulness of any of it. We should not judge anyone on what may/may not have happened in a situation that we did not witness ourselves. This could have been a request from FIL or the family could have kept info from the OP because she seems a bit overwhelming and they were trying to get through things and grieve.
FWIW, my own father died in April. He REFUSED to go to the hospital even for hospice care. He was determined to die at home and even yelled at me for trying to find hospice to go to the house. It was not until he fell while struggling to get around that he finally agreed to go to the hospital. He knew he would never return home and spent 4 days in hospice.
One should never discount the wants of the patient in situations such as this.
The OP was never told not to visit FIL, but she was told she could not visit the grandkids after saying that she "needed" to see them.
No matter what happened before, by OP's own admission she made things about her and her grief and then was adamant that she was "right". Sometimes being right is not better than being kind.
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