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KatGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 28-Jan-16 10:33:12

Nobody to call me Madam?

What's killing the traditional department store? Jane Tulloch shares her tale of the theatrical ambience and glitz of department stores in the late 1960s, and wonders what has happened to them.

Jane Tulloch

Nobody to call me Madam?

Posted on: Thu 28-Jan-16 10:33:12

(130 comments )

Lead photo

"These shops did more than sell goods: they sold us on luxury and pleasure: they made us feel special."

Whatever happened to the good old fashioned department stores of yore? The ones where they called you madam and there were delicate little chairs at each counter for madam to perch on as she discussed her order with the attentive black-dressed assistant.

The ones where you could buy (and have delivered) anything from a pin to a grand piano with everything and anything else in between. Such department stores used to be found in every large town and city throughout the country. In Cardiff there was Howells, in Bradford Brown, Muff and Co, Manchester had Kendal Milne. London had several including Harrods of course, as well as Liberty’s, Whitely’s and Dickins and Jones.

A few, a brave few of these traditional department stores, do remain although almost as tourist attractions and tending to be owned by large overseas conglomerates rather than the families who used to own and run them.

I well remember the thrill of entering a large department store in Edinburgh: the door was swung wide for us by a uniformed commissionaire who touched his cap to my mother and gave every indication that she was known to him and her custom appreciated. She nodded regally. I was impressed. I was even more impressed when taken for a half term treat of lunch in the dining room of a large Glasgow department store. While we consumed our meal, beautiful models wandered coolly around the tables in a range of expensive outfits and elegantly displayed key features such as velvet lapels or fan pleated skirts for our awed pleasure. These shops did more than sell goods: they sold us on luxury and pleasure: they made us feel special.

We weren't allowed to sit down, forbidden to fold our arms and banned from saying “Can I help you?” to customers (too off-putting apparently.)


Often beautiful, these old shops were almost theatrical in ambience. It was only when I began to work in one as a summer job in the 1970s that I realised that there was very much a backstage and a front of house. I could see clearly that the assistants were performing a role for the public but also that they had stories of their own. Each department was a venue for a drama, each customer and staff member a potential audience or actor. Of course, this potential had already been spotted and used by the 1970s sitcom “Are you being served” but, with its focus purely on comedy, a great deal was overlooked.

We had such fun there despite what now seem incredibly outdated rules and regulations. We weren’t allowed to sit down, forbidden to fold our arms and banned from saying “Can I help you?” to customers (too off-putting apparently.) The senior sales assistants (but not us juniors) were on commission and earned a massive 1p in every £2.40! The January sales were a time to dread: just looking at the tidal wave of ladies intent on bargains rushing down the department towards us was terrifying. This was mitigated by the laughs we had: calling each other ridiculous names in front of customers without smiling, sabotaging tasteful displays, treasure hunts around departments, complicated April fools tricks, and other examples of youthful exuberance. I’m sure gransnetters have many similar tales as customers and staff.

Why did these lovely stores decline from the late 1960s to 70s? Was it because we were seduced away by the proliferation of “boutiques” for our trendy clothing? The explosion of very modern chain stores on our high streets? Were the old department stores too hopelessly difficult to update? Most likely a combination of all these in conjunction with the dire economic times prevailing.

I miss them now there is nowhere left to call me madam.

Jane's new book, Our Best Attention is published by Comely Back Publishing and is available from Amazon.

Post your comments below for a chance to win one of five copies of Our Best Attention.

By Jane Tulloch

Twitter: @JaneTulloch1

WilmaKnickersfit Thu 28-Jan-16 21:00:50

That was an amazing story Jalima and I have watched the reunion video on YouTube many times since the story became known. Changed times indeed.

Galen Thu 28-Jan-16 21:11:48

Beatties in Wolverhampton used to have models parading round.

oldgoat Thu 28-Jan-16 23:01:25

In the early 1950s my aunt took me shopping to a posh ladies' outfitters in Park Street , Bristol. She wanted to buy a pair of nylons which must have been a pricy item at that time. The assistant carefully removed them from their packet and laid them out on an illuminated glass counter to check that they were perfect. How times have changed.

Galen Thu 28-Jan-16 23:26:00

Maggs?

oldgoat Thu 28-Jan-16 23:36:55

Sorry. I was only about five at the time so I can't remember the name of the shop.

Jalima Thu 28-Jan-16 23:52:02

Ah yes, Beatties in Wolverhampton too!
My posts sound like my life in department stores - my mother must have liked shopping grin
Although I don't think we visited very often, they must have made an impression.

WilmaKnickersfit Thu 28-Jan-16 23:55:21

Even in the 80s I can remember Owen Owen selling expensive brands of stockings. At that time I would buy tights from M&S, C&A, BHS, etc., but if I wanted stockings to wear with my sexy lingerie sets, I'd head for Owens. You could buy them in so many different sizes (often by shoe size), leg length, and lots of different denier and there was just something special about this. The truth is though the expensive stockings were no better than the cheaper pairs and just as likely to ladder! grin

I was paying for the experience and that's what those old department stores were about.

Galen Fri 29-Jan-16 00:22:30

My wedding dress ame from Beatties

Jane10 Fri 29-Jan-16 09:15:33

I have such lovely memories of buying my wedding dress in Jenners Edinburgh. Never thought of going anywhere else for it. What a lovely place it was then. Sadly changed now. After fittings etc we'd go straight to the fifth floor tearoom for coffee and the best ever scones all baked on the premises.

flamenco Fri 29-Jan-16 09:57:07

How well I remember Bobbys my grandmother took me and my cousin there, we also loved a knickerbocker glory. My grandmother always went very smartly dressed complete with hat, it all felt very special.

tiggypiro Fri 29-Jan-16 09:59:59

I remember my friends and I being refused entry to Cavendish House in Cheltenham by the very smart door man. We were students at the time (and probably dressed as such !) but little did he know that the mother of one of our party was a shareholder. As far as I know she did not tell her rather formidable mother. This was in the 60's

Jalima Fri 29-Jan-16 10:01:09

My SIL bought her wedding dress in Beatties of Wolverhampton.
I bought mine in Pophams in Plymouth, a small department store which was not taken over by one of the high street giants and, I think, became a Green Shield stamp shop. sad

annodomini Fri 29-Jan-16 10:09:28

My great aunt, in her youth, had worked in Jenners, on the glove counter. The sales girls lived on the premises - a dormitory on the top floor. I loved the department stores in Edinburgh. My parents had an account in Patrick Thompson's (PT's) which we were allowed to use - within reason! The red duffel coat I wore throughout my university life and later through pregnancy, came from PT's. My University red gown was bought at Forsyth's - a very 'proper' department store - and my name was printed on a leather label inside the yoke. I was offered a summer job there but had already accepted M&S - a bad choice, for them as for me, but that's another story.

Liaise Fri 29-Jan-16 19:54:57

JALIMA I remember when Dingles, John Yeo and Spooners were built after the war. The first escalators we children had ever been on were in Dingles. we had a marvellous time riding up and down. These shops were built on bombed areas in Plymouth. Until then the shops were in big houses around Plymouth which had survived the bombing. They were fascinating warrens of rooms and corridors for a five year old to explore. Does anyone remember the British restaurants which were opened to feed the population during and after the war?

Jalima Fri 29-Jan-16 20:03:05

Liaise I remember MIL telling me that when FIL was on his way home on leave he reached the top of Haldon Hill and saw a glow in the sky and knew it was Plymouth on fire.
I didn't know the shops carried on in the big houses around after the bombing.

Jane10 Fri 29-Jan-16 20:21:50

That's really interesting Liaise. Wonder how it all worked just moving a dept store to big empty houses. Another aspect to wartime Britain!

Jalima Fri 29-Jan-16 23:24:00

Where were the houses that were used Liaise?
Presumably they must have been just off the city centre, how fascinating!

WilmaKnickersfit Sat 30-Jan-16 00:57:26

Yesterday I came across this photo of Owen Owen after the bombing of Coventry. I think it must have been taken from in front of the cathedral ruins. Sad times.

WilmaKnickersfit Sat 30-Jan-16 00:58:21

Not sure what happened there.

Liaise Sat 30-Jan-16 14:33:09

I have been thinking about how it all worked and the ladies department that I went to with my mother was up in Muttley Plain in the old house mentioned earlier. Other departments must have been located in other parts of the suburbs wherever they could. Where are your parents when you need all this information? Many shops opened up in Nissan huts in the bombed areas. We children played in the bombed buildings for years (no health and safety rules then). We thought everyone lived like we did. I think many did because DH was brought up in Coventry and lived similarly. He has just unearthed a book called BLITZ OVER BRITAIN by Edwin Webb and John Duncan which he probably bought second hand or over the Internet. Quite informative if you could find a copy

Jane10 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:13:13

I wonder if the old house where the Ladies dept was located was the family home of the owners? These old stores all seemed to be family businesses or had started as family businesses. That ethos seemed to permeate anyway.
We always knew the bosses where I worked were part of the family. They seemed such distant and somehow glamorous figures.

Galen Sat 30-Jan-16 15:34:46

Hoppers in Torquay. The first time I went in straight from the boat. Mucky jeans, anorack. Hair in a pony tail, deck shoes ( no pearls)
They were very reluctant to sell me a rather expensive suit until I'd produced (and they'd checked) my gold card.
After that, every time I went in I was treated like royalty " oh hello Dr ----, how nice to see you. We've just got these couple of new outfits in that we think you might like!"
I was usually straight off the boat and very wind Blown!

A bit like this

Jane10 Sat 30-Jan-16 17:48:58

Gorgeous! When I worked in Jenners in the 70s and someone produced a card for payment we had to discreetly phone 'tube desk' (where we sent the pneumatic shuttles of cash to) to ask if it was OK. They'd ask us what the customer was like eg fur coat or good jewellery or well spoken etc. After this whispered exchange it was usually fine to take a credit card payment. They probably thought 'Ooh, got a boat eh? Must be well off, and a Dr too. Lovely!'

Purpledaffodil Sat 30-Jan-16 20:22:09

I had a Saturday job in Goslings in Richmond in the mid sixties which was one of those old department stories which was housed in a series of shops, so that floor levels changed as you walked through. I worked in the jumper and blouse part of Ladieswear and once had to wear a cardigan from stock on a hot summer day as I had come to work in a SLEEVELESS dress. What a hussy! The cardigan went back into stock at the end of the day?. The shop closed for the duration of Winston Churchill's funeral and the staff were gathered together in the ladies underwear department to watch it on TV. It would have made an episode of Are you being served ? grin

WilmaKnickersfit Sat 30-Jan-16 23:19:49

A sleeveless dress! shock You hussy you! grin So what was wrong with a sleeveless dress? confused

Liaise we watched a BBC documentary a few years ago about the bombing of Coventry and I was shocked at the amount of destruction and how awful it was both during and afterwards. I remember saying to my DH that it should be shown in schools.

Galen did you manage to keep a straight face or did you just smile sweetly? I wonder if they would have recognised you wearing the suit? grin