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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

The wrong kind of refugee?

In recent years, the world has witnessed a refugee crisis that has forced more than a million men, women and children to flee the brutal violence in their own countries. Yet despite the life-threatening situations they face, these refugees (including children) have often been met with a degree of suspicion and fear in the nations they have escaped to.

Author Barbara Fox, whose own mother was evacuated from inner-city Newcastle as a child, wonders what the difference between Britain's long-ago children and today's refugees is?

Barbara Fox

The wrong kind of refugee?

Posted on: Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

(999 comments )

Lead photo

Are today's refugees really any different?

When I read a headline recently about the outrage of a 'picturesque' village to which 70 'child migrants' were to be sent, I was reminded of another time in our history when places in the countryside were obliged to welcome strangers into their midst.

Back in 1940 when she was six years old, my mother, Gwenda, and her older brother, Doug, were among the hundreds of thousands of children who left their inner-city homes and were evacuated to the countryside to escape the German bombs.

Gwenda's main memory of her journey from Newcastle to the Lake District centres round the banana she was given to eat by her mother – the last she was to see for several years. A teacher ordered the children to sit on their bags, and consequently, when Gwenda came to unpack later, she found squashed banana over all her belongings.

On arrival in the pretty village of Bampton they were lined up in the church hall while the villagers came to choose who they wanted. Yes, it does seem unbelievable that that was how the evacuees were billeted to their families! You might imagine that Gwenda and Doug – clean, nicely dressed children - would have been snapped up first (they would surely be the refugees that no one would protest about today!). But actually, that was not the case. Gwenda was the youngest child there as she was tagging along with Doug and his class of nine-year-olds - their mother had insisted that the pair should not be separated. Consequently, the locals were expecting older children, and someone of Gwenda's size probably didn't look very useful in this farming community.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today?


Gwenda and Doug were the only children left when the wife of the village headmaster arrived. As the mother of two sons, she had to be persuaded to take a girl. However, she relented, and so the children went home with her. They would spend three happy years living in the schoolhouse and Gwenda would keep in touch with the couple she called 'Aunty' and 'Uncle' for the rest of their lives.

The following year, in more desperate circumstances, Bampton opened its doors to another influx of children, this time from the shipbuilding town of Barrow-in-Furness.

Undoubtedly thousands of lives were saved by this evacuation of the nation's children, and indeed, Gwenda and Doug's own street in Newcastle was bombed.

Britain also welcomed refugees from Europe, including thousands of Jewish children who might otherwise have perished.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today? I would go so far as to say that the inner-city children who turned up in Bampton were often just as alien to their rural hosts as the foreign newcomers seem to be to the 'picturesque' village dwellers. But equally, both could teach something to the other.

Those harking back to 'when Britain was great' perhaps forget that it was also characterised by our opening our doors to those in need.

When the War Is Over by Barbara Fox, the story of Gwenda’s wartime evacuation, is published by Sphere and is available from Amazon.

By Barbara Fox

Twitter: @Gransnet

Mair Sun 15-Jan-17 17:40:14

Jalima
Any evidence that the small numbers of British children temporarily evacuated overseas in WW2 werent the better off?

A further two million or so more wealthy individuals evacuated 'privately', some settling in hotels for the duration and several thousand travelling to Canada, the United States, South Africa, Australia or the Caribbean.

sites.google.com/site/wwiitheblitzinbritian/home/The-CORB

Hmmm. Isnt this a reflection of whats happening in Syria now, excep tof course the Syrians are also gettign charity help which Brits who wanted to leave idnt.

I believe Shirley Williams was evacuated to the USA. Another example of the rich and privileged

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 17:40:33

But just imagine mair there won't be a single migrant anywhere in the world. Your idea of heaven.

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 17:41:22

World dominance with no migration. Bliss!!

Mair Sun 15-Jan-17 17:43:42

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

durhamjen Sun 15-Jan-17 17:45:15

A true socialist world, except for the world dominance bit.

Is worldwide utopia possible?

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 17:45:54

Oh I'm sorry I thought you were against immigration. Have I misunderstood you?

durhamjen Sun 15-Jan-17 17:46:37

Bogotry?
I think whitewave is being very tolerant.

Mair Sun 15-Jan-17 17:48:00

"World dominance with no migration. Bliss!!"

It's the 'post national" tendency who want 'world domination' WW,
Brave New World.
Those wanting to maintain nation states are arguing precisely the opposite. Indeed by it's very nature, a diversity of states is the antithesis of 'world domination'.
You appear to be very confused.

Jalima Sun 15-Jan-17 17:51:15

Jalima
Any evidence that the small numbers of British children temporarily evacuated overseas in WW2 werent the better off?

Any evidence they were?

Rich or poor, many did not live to tell the tale because the ship was torpedoed
The steam passenger ship City of Bernares was holed by the torpedo and sank in the early hours of 18 September, 600 miles off Ireland after its Royal Naval escort had deployed elsewhere.

The evacuees, many of whom were travelling with their mothers, had ironically been selected for the voyage because of their vulnerability to bombing in their home towns and cities.
The enterprise was abandoned afterwards otherwise thousands of other children would have been sent, some with their mothers, some without.

It's an indicator of your bigotry.
Do you understand irony?

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 17:52:58

Oh no mair I'm not the one confused. I simply suggested that perhaps in your model of no immigration. world domination would be no bad thing as there would be no - couldn't possibly be any immigration.

Mair Sun 15-Jan-17 18:05:32

No WW you were implying I wanted 'world domination' when actually its DJ talking of a new world order, a 'socialist Utopia'.

I repeat 'world domination' is impossible in a world of nation states, and that is why its so important to conserve.

Mair Sun 15-Jan-17 18:11:58

Jalima

You were the one who made a claim so I am afraid it falls to you to provide evidence that there is some basis for believing it. The only person Ive heard of evacuated overseas as a child was Shirley Williams, but mmy link certainly provides evidence of wealthy adults doing so, something I heard about anyway.

And of course it was the same on the other side, many wealthy Jewish people got away from Germany, people like Judith Kerr the author, and the Milliband parents.

Money is always used in warzones to provide a passage to safety. I cant imagine why anyone would think Syria is different.

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 18:28:02

mair doh!!!! I was teasing - unfortunately you didn't understand that. You initially brought up world domination in reply to eleothan, and I found it so amusing and ridiculous that I couldn't resist.

Ankers Sun 15-Jan-17 18:47:58

Open borders Eloethan, the end of nation states and one world governance. It's a goal of both international communists and the multinationals and bankers.

I agree with Mair, I think that is the agenda.

The description is discussed in the last book of the Bible.

www.gotquestions.org/one-world-government.html

Dont ask me to explain this, as I dont really understand it.

mcem Sun 15-Jan-17 19:22:59

Well now that ankers is on board with mair the argument may become clearer!

durhamjen Sun 15-Jan-17 20:05:13

"St.Hilda's school was founded in 1915 by the Anglican order of the Holy Paraclete, a religious order of nuns, that was started at Whitby on the North Yorkshire coast in 1914 by the Prioress, Mother Margaret. Based at Sneaton Castle, the school and community had both become well established and flourishing.

In September 1939, war broke out with Germany, and, bearing in mind that Whitby was one of the towns shelled by German battleships in the First World War, it was decided that the girls should be evacuated from Whitby. Arrangements were made for many of the girls under fifteen years of age to go to Toronto in Ontario, Canada. The rest were to go to Wemmergill Hall.

I was curious to know how Wemmergill Hall became available to St.Hilda's School and the O.H.P Archivist, Sister Hilary, has provided the following extract from the minutes of the Annual Chapter of the Order of the Holy Paraclete dated 9th September 1940, which I quote with her permission. Mr Farndale, who is mentioned as the instigator of the move to Wemmergill Hall, was a local bank manager, and his daughter Julia, was at school at Wemmergill. "

Useful looking into family history. These girls were not from particularly wealthy families, jusr religious ones.

Jalima Sun 15-Jan-17 20:17:19

You were the one who made a claim so I am afraid it falls to you to provide evidence that there is some basis for believing it.
I'm afraid I don't really see why I should bother but here goes:

Some well-to-do families sent their children overseas in the early days of the war, then:

Government-sponsored evacuation abroad
For the less well-off or well-connected their chance came starting on 19 June 1940 when the UK government, responding to grassroots offers from the Empire, announced a plan for evacuation of children to Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa. The announcement read that “a total of 20,000 could be sent off immediately, of which 10,000 would go to Canada.

CORB, the Children’s Overseas Reception Board, operated this scheme under the political leadership of Geoffrey Shakespeare, parliamentary under-secretary of state for the dominions in the Churchill government from June 1940 to March 1942. (Sarah Algeria) Marjorie Maxse was the director, described as a natural leader with clear vision and a single-minded determination to achieve her goals. She held the position from 1940 until 1944.
It’s a sobering measure of the mood in Britain that 211,448 applications, wildly beyond authority’s expectations, representing approaching half the children eligible, five to fifteen years of age, were submitted to CORB.

www.johndreid.com/home/ww2-british-child-evacuees-to-canada

Someone may be interested in the information smile

Ana Sun 15-Jan-17 20:18:11

Yet another of Mair's posts deleted! I don't recall it being that bad - there must really be a concerted effort involved...hmm

Jalima Sun 15-Jan-17 20:20:34

And, of course, there were thousands upon thousands of children evacuated from large cities to the countryside.

JessM Sun 15-Jan-17 21:24:01

Why we need immigrants. (And why Brexit will mean longer working lives for UK citizens)
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/hard-brexit-means-retiring-later-britons-warned

rosesarered Sun 15-Jan-17 21:41:07

I do think that a number of posters on here are objecting to Mair's posts via the report button when nothing personal or rude has been said, simply because they don't agree with the comment or message which is posted.Hmmmn, indeed.

rosesarered Sun 15-Jan-17 21:41:56

Far better to carry on debating the issue.

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 21:47:29

* rose* I know both yourself and ana enjoy spinning your webs. I profoundly disagree with mair and she knows that. But I have never and have no intention of ever reporting a single person on here. I do not need anyone to fight my battles, and rest assured if I don't like the heat I will simply get out of the kitchen.

Now could I request you put away your spoons and try to resist innuendo and spin

durhamjen Sun 15-Jan-17 21:49:51

Never noticed. Who do you think reported Mair, roses?
Maybe HQ thought it broke the rules. That's what they said. I assume there is a moderator on, and this is a contentious thread.
Anyway, carry on debating.

rosesarered Sun 15-Jan-17 21:58:52

A very defensive post from you ww as well as a rude one.Certainly somebody or more than one, doesn't like what Mair writes, but I have noticed that she doesn't become personal in return, unlike quite a few on this thread.
A good old debate on any subject is interesting to read, but the things said to Mair by some are unacceptable IMHO.
I leave spinning webs,spoons, innuendo and spin to others more politically minded.

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