What does middle class mean to you?

Spot on greatnan he would like to think he is 'working class' but his mum would not have done!! Such a complex society!

Only if he wants it to.

I married the boy form the Wandsworth council flat. He's an OFSTED inspector now...does that make him middle class?

I love that story, when!

My teachers certainly had low expectations of me as a child. When I, a child from a nearby council estate, told my form teacher I had passed the eleven plus, she uttered 'What? You?' I think that was a life-changing moment for me. It dawned on me that people in authority expected me to know my place. I got my grammar school place, then wasted my school years because I hated the school and the teachers, but couldn't articulate that my working class-ness was some sort of barrier, as far as they were concerned. Shook all that off when I got a good career and degree and bumped into a few old school 'friends' who had made little of themselves, despite their privileged circumstances. Funniest of all was the Oxbridge-bound head girl who ran off during A-levels, to live with a docker in Liverpool. I met her when she was working as the cook in a probation hostel. She had rejected all the pressure from her parents, who she described as 'pretentious t**ts!'

I quite agree about teacher (and parent) expectations having a huge influence on how well children progress - I spent many years in teaching battling the prejudices of the 'academic' staff against my remedial pupils.
I suppose the teachers in the survey assumed that certain types of parents would give their children certain types of names and would also have certain attitudes towards education and discipline . Please don't shoot the messenger.

I don't know why you would find it a revelation that I am not much of a consumer, petallus - I have described my tiny flat in the mountains, and the fact that I don't use any make-up, or buy new clothes. I am hurt that you have taken so little notice of my posts!

Good bargain, when When my DGCs were small I searched everywhere for a cheap dolls house but ended up buying the furniture off eBay and DH made 'rooms' which fitted in a large cardboard box. They played with it for years - until it fell apart.

Another sign of being middle class is wanting to hang on to hundreds of books. I've given away many sackloads of paperbacks in the knowledge that I would not be likely to read them again.

If I had been concerned about appearances I suppose I would have bought a number of extra bookcases and then lined my walls with books.

Or self-fulfilling prophesy? Research has shown that teacher expectation does affect randomly selected children. Those who teachers have been led to believe are bright do better in class, even though they have actually been randomly selected.

Greatnan I do think non-consumption is often something middle class people boast about. For instance, not having a television, using second hand clothes, other frugal measures. I already knew you were a non-consumer though I'm not sure how.

And Deeda having a 'handful of rather nice inherited bits and pieces' speaks volumes.

I think I'm the same place on the continuum as you and Deedaa, Marelli. Living in similar circumstances, council house background as a child, equally comfortable in charity shops and Waitrose, and love a bargain. Got a great one today - a hand-made dolls house in perfect condition, newly refurbished, similar to ones I've seen at £200, and the Ebay seller said 'open to offers' so I offered £55 and got it! My grandchildren (both boys and girls) will have years of fun playing with it.

So children with misspelled names are more troublesome - why? Because their parents are not middle class?

Love johannapiano's definition.

Deedaa - you and I are similar then! I did live in an ex-council house, but sold it for an old cottage that we got really cheaply because it was rather damp! My DH is also a retired HGV driver, my shopping is done at Aldi's or wherever I think I'm going to get a bargain, and clothes and furniture etc are from charity shops and ebay, because I love the hunt and the excitement of finding just the right thing.
Also have heaps of books and all of the family have 'old-fashioned' names!
So, I don't know where I fit in....although I do remember my dad saying, when I was a child, "We're 'lower middle class''. Dad might have had delusions of grandeur though. He was what was known in those days as a Master Plumber, but had his own business. He did go bust though, bless him!

Apparently, teachers believe they can forecast which infants will be troublesome by their names! I knew of a family called Aaron, Darren and Sharon. Misspelling of names is usually a give-away - Shawn and Shivorn spring to mind. There are also poor children lumbered with the names of football teams - although I believe a registrar can refuse to register ridiculous names.

Sloan Square: John Lewis not M & S; Waitrose not Asda: Oh my dear not whats up love; Noooo make me just ordinary, just Mum & Grandma will do me thank you.

Not sure where I fit in all this, I live in an ex council house, my husband is a retired HGV Driver, shopping is evenly split between Aldi and Waitrose and clothes and furniture tend to be ebay or charity shops. When we could afford holidays they were in Italy -but done on a shoestring. BUT we have hundreds of books, a handful of rather nice inherited bits and pieces and a firm belief in education and the importance of not calling your baby after your favourite film star because you will all live to regret it.

My non-consumption is not conspicuous because nobody sees it! I just don't have room for many possessions and I love the simplicity of my life.
There is just one status symbol that I envy - travelling Business Class to New Zealand, but that is purely for the comfort. It takes me about 40 hours door to door and it would be lovely to be able to lie down properly on at least one stage of the journey.

Most people want to feel they have status in society. The middle classes have many non-material signifiers of status and therefore have no need to turn to excessive spending to feel they are of value. In fact, conspicuous non-consumption is often in itself another status symbol.

Which is more or less what Greatnan said so I'm agreeing with her.

Being in the queue in Tesco's and answering a phone call by saying "I'm in Waitrose".

Second hand clothes are the equivalent of 'hand-me-downs', which a lot of people from poorer families grew up with and sometimes felt shame about. They don't want their children (or themselves) to feel that they are somehow not as good as everyone else. Middle class families hand clothes down not because they can't afford new, but because it's practical.

I suppose it is a question of self confidence - people who feel they are at a disadvantage because of their lack of education, etc. may surround themselves with possessions because it gives them a feeling of self worth.

I agree with you baNANA & Bags it is more about attitudes, 'values' * expectations that define a what is seen as a person's class.

I worked in schools in inner city deprived areas and many of the families were horrified that I shopped in charity shops for my girls & that they did not have their own walkman sets for Christmas! Could not understand how I could let my kids wear something that someone else had worn. My 'working class' SiL is like that..when they moved house he had to change toilet seats and the carpets.. no matter how new /clean they were..does not like byDD buying from ebay or charity shops! He feels it looks as if he cannot 'provide' for his family.

I remember a neighbour of mine, who had sent her children to the very best of schools, told me that when her youngest child was under three, she used to wrap up old toys that had belonged to her siblings for Christmas presents on the basis that she wouldn't know they weren't new. I simultaneously thought at the time, "how incredibly mean but how incredibly middle class you are". I think that whole stoicism about not having the latest of what could be deemed as unnecessary stuff does embody middle class values, more books in the home and not necessarily the widest screen t.v. money can buy. The people that go over the top at Christmas are often those who can least afford it. I equate that whole must have status symbol thing as a bit down market.

...just a random thought...would I choose to be in the company of a "well-bred" ill-mannered person - or a "down and out" good-mannered person, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the latter.

I think I agree with you, Bags, as far as the present generation are concerned, but my parents were both avid readers, politically aware and intelligent, but having had to leave school at 14 they never got away from their working class background. On the other hand, my father's brother, with the same lack of education, took correspondence courses and got himself a white-collar job in the Probate Office, bought his own house, and had holidays in Benidorm in the 1950s. He was what we call 'aspirational working class', whereas my father seemed content to do his unskilled job until he died.

I have long thought that the working classes started to lose out when more of them went to grammar schools , got professional careers and embraced the middle class lifestyle. It seemed that everybody who could have been a spokesman for the disadvantaged hot-footed it to leafy suburbs as soon as they could. (I know I did!)

It might be that the recent flood of redundancies amongst older people, middle managers, etc. will reintroduce a stream of articulate, intelligent people who will fight this wretched government.

I now live in a country where the people I meet cannot pigeonhole me because of my accent and I regard myself as outside the class system. I won't play the game.