Grandchildren Taken into Care

SueBee - I've only just seen your recent posts. I have sent you a pm.

SueBee- how are you now. Has the court case taken place or was it "delayed".
I can understand your frustration with words being misrepresented.

We have another problem now. We are going for an SGO through the Local Authority. The Independent Assessor has blatantly lied in it and has also asked the grandson (6) if he would live with us if his half-brother was with us, which we think was an unfair question as this would never happen.

This Independent Assessor is anti-men and anti-dogs.

The "smacking" incident of granddaughter (now 4) which did not happen and LA know that she was coached to accuse me of this and was fully investigated by the police and bruises were found to have been there long before she came to see us this Independent Assessor has put in that I admitted it!!! I definitely did not admit to doing something I did not do.

She asked grandson who said that I have never smacked him and he wants to live with us and does not want his half-sister to live with him.

This Independent Assessor is so obsessed with the allegation (even though unfounded) that she has even put in the report that she is not sure if he is trying to protect her from me smacking her when she is naughty).

She has also put in the report that a teacher verbally said that they smelt alcohol on my husand's breath when picking up older grandson from school - he hardly ever picks him up from school but does not need to get near enough to a teacher for this to happen and also no-one has phoned he school and when she first mentioned it she said she overheard a conversation in the office (what a coincidence) but admitted no-one has phoned the school so (a) how can the conversation have taken place and (b) how can the teacher have verbally said this if no-one has rang the school.

We are so annoyed right now this is so unbelievable and like we're living a nightmare which was not of our making but feel that we are being treated like the criminals not the birth mother and her violent partner. One minute she is recommending us to have our grandson then she is like making us out to b the worst people on the planet.

Sorry for the long post but we do not know what we should do next. We feel that if this woman stands up in court with what she has put in the report (birth mother/solicitor) will receive a copy of this) she will be crucified and we will lose our other grandson.

I think we will have grounds for defamation of character against this woman as allegations were fully investigated by the police and unfounded and the alcohol comment has no foundation as she has nothing to back it up with.

Just wondered if anyone else had come across anything like this.

Sorry for the long post again but we are totally fed up with the whole situation

TIA

Thank you DAncer66.

Following on from this we have been going through the SGO process for our 6 year old grandson (Independent Assessor has decided our property is too small for both but she's a liar). The Independent Assessor told us that the Court date was 19 December so we were gearing up to be told yes or no and either have a good Christmas or a bad one.

The Independent Assessor had not read the file and kept picking bits out of it and getting it wrong. She accused me of putting bruises on our granddaughter and when I explained there is more than one Nanny B in this set-up she said "oh it's definitely you Sue" when it is fully documented that the bruises were put there long before I even saw her and everyone knows that she was coached by the BF to say it was me.

She told my husband that she overheard a conversation stating that he went into school smelling of alcohol but when we asked her when they rang the school she said "as far as she knew no-one had rung the school yet"!!!!!

Anyway on Thursday we were told that the 19th is the date the paperwork has to be given in to Court and as the parties were not likely to agree the actual Hearing date would be in the New Year. This has upset us as we are now convinced that our grandson will not be able to spend Christmas with us this year (as he has done every year since birth).

We were also told that as we are not a party to the application yet we would not be required to attend. Is this right? I thought that as we were putting in an application for an SGO that we were now parties to the application.

We were also told that although we have had the older grandson all his life that we cannot use this to strengthen our case as he is not on the radar as far as they are concerned but they now want to speak to him AGAIN (3rd time now) to see how he feels about his half-brother coming to live with us. They were also just going to turn up at his school without him being told which we did not agree to.

Also BM is lying about us but we have no way of defending ourselves as no-one is actually coming to us to verify the accusations.

Also has anyone heard of/had experience of going through this whole process and not getting the SGO?

Sorry for the long post but we are getting more and more confused.

TIA

SueBee47

SueBee47,

The boy should have a say in who he wants to live with. When I went for custody of my grandson, the judge said the child had voted with his feet.

Definitely sounds like the little girl needs some professional help. If you were able to take her and the boy unconditionally, and show her what a real household is like, it might make all the difference in her life.

I grew up in an abusive home, my dad was in and out of prison, and eventually committed suicide. I used to spend occasional weekends with my grandparents, they were my saving grace.

I was a snot-nosed, skinny little redhead who hated the world and his wife. So you can imagine what they put up with.

It’s not the child’s fault. She’s just thinks that’s the way it is. You can teach her different.

Thank you Iam64. That was very useful. From talking to the sw he seems to be wearing all the hats you mention. We know their caseloads are large. Our point is that we have provided photographic evidence to prove that she is a liar so the case could have been dealt with by now. So we don't know what the hold up is.

SW now saying he is starting his parent assessment!!! I assume this means the bf only has to stay away for a short period and then when kids are given back the will be of!!!!

Yes that's right Ana. It was nannynoo. I wonder if she is still around GN. Iam64 that was a really informative post. I hope it helps.

Sorry, Ix posted there with Anna and Wilma.

SueBee, as Wilma suggests, please see a solicitor who specialises in family law asap. You get the first appointment free. You may find helpful advice on the Family Rights Group website.
If your grandchildren have been made the subject of an interim care order, the court will have appointed a Children's Guardian. A CG is the independent experienced social worker appointed by the court, their job is to provide independent sw reports and assessments. To do that, they should see the children and interview all the significant people. I'm told that because of pressure of work, CG's don't do the in-depth work they did in the past but nonetheless, their job includes appointing and instructing a solicitor to represent the children. If you see a solicitor they will understand the complicated procedures that most of us (thankfully) never have to make our way through. A good child care solicitor would make phone calls to the sw team's legal department and speak on your behalf.

I'm sorry that you feel in the dark, it is so stressful. The other things you could do would be to phone the sw daily, if no response, ask the person who answers the phone if you can speak to the sw's manager. As well as the Children's Guardian, your grandchildren will have someone called an independent reviewing officer. Their role includes making sure that the children's circumstances are reviewed regularly. You can phone and ask for the name of the IRO and then ask to speak to her/him. Their role includes discussing contact arrangements and asking which family members want to be assessed as permanent carers for the children.

I hope this information may be helpful and doesn't make you feel even more overwhelmed and ignored. The family courts do recognise the importance of grandparents but someone needs to make the Judge aware that you are jumping up and down and asking to be assessed. That's something the CG would see as important but I expect the sw also sees it as important. I am making no excuses for poor practice but I'm told that case loads are impossible to manage. Cuts and increasing care proceedings are the cause.

I admit I know nothing about this kind of situation, but after all this time waiting politely and patiently, I would be worried about what was going on, especially if it could be revolving around allowing the children to return to their mother.

My concern is SS now looking at you as 2nd choice to their mother and your voice needs to be heard to respond to what their mother is telling SS. If SS are not keeping you in the picture, then I would start doing something about it before it is too late.

I can only imagine the nightmare you're going through.

I think it was nannynoo but she hasn't posted for a while.

Agree with this advice Wilma. Needs to be a solicitor specialising in family law. SueBee this must be so hard for you. There was another GN member a while ago who fought tooth and nail for custody of her beloved GS. She just kept plugging away despite many hurdles until she finally got her lovely boy. I wish I could remember her name. Anyone else remember? She might have some words of support if still on GN.

I really think you should see a solicitor and sooner rather than later.

We are at our witsend now. SW is ignoring our messages and we do not know what is going on.

We do not know where we go from here. Not heard from SW for 3 weeks (since we gave him the proof he asked for)!!!

Does anyone know what we should do next. Our 10 year old keeps asking when the others are coming to live with us and we have no answer for him.

Any suggestions on our next course of action would be very much appreciated.

TIA

Just thought I would update you on how things are going and ask if anyone has any experience of what happens after they have supplied concrete proof that someone has lied in their statement in order to try and get kids back and how long it should take after submitting said proof to the Social Worker.

Also mother is trying to assert her authority (which I thought she lost once the kids got taken away) by laying down rules for the kids, i.e. that they cannot go out and play (get fresh air) that they cannot have sweets. This makes everyone so mad, especially when she kept them cooped up inside a smoke infested house and fed them takeaways.

She does this when she is having her contact.

I have just seen some things written by other people about my attitude to Social Workers. It is most certainly true that my opinions are very low. My exoeriences were not confined to one type of Social Worker. I had contact twice re child protection. One they were forcing all sorts when there was a claim by my ex H that I was neglecting my children. I refused to pay his way any longer and I put him out the house therefore cutting off his meal ticket. He tried access in Court and was refused and THEN he comes up with an allegation. There was nothing wrong with my children but they were traumatised at being taken to a hospital for tests. Both of them are in the forces now.
Next we have a recorded criminal whacking children but Social Work do nothing for years meanwhile kids are damaged.
Clearly having thrown the exH out the house I know what it takes to get rid of a waste of space partner.
Social Work failed to sct timeously for one elderly and claimed there was nothing wrong with another who had been in receipt of disability awards for decades. They even saw all the surgical scars but nothing wrong at all.
Dealing with all this has made various changes in me. At times I have been so beaten down with it all other times I know the facts which now prove the actions were skewed to be polite about it.
Perhaps there are goos Social Workers out there I have not met one. It is irritating that they lie their way round things rather than admit human error. I get so upset and it brings back bad memories everytime I hear of Social Workers getting it wrong and they say lessons will be learned but there is no sign of that yet.
Sorry to those who are were or have Social Workers in their family. I can only speak from my experiences and those are indeed bitter experienced
SPF

Thank you Nightowl. I will have a look at Grandparents Plus website also.

We have heard from the SW an apparently she has written a statement (with the help of her solicitor) which states that she categorically has nothing more to do with the BF with we all know is a lie but now SW is saying we need proof by actually seeing them together. We know they were seen together a week ago buying cans of lager and her Facebook page still says "in a relationship" but I am partially blocked so cannot see everything she does on it.

I really am at a loss as to what to do now. Not sure how quickly they move after receiving this statement (they haven't moved very quickly so far)but we are afraid that if we can't get the proof she will get the kids back and then move away.

We are really are starting to panic now.

Although it's frustrating for you not to hear anything it is good news that they are looking at approving you as foster carers initially. That means you will be entitled to all the support (financial and otherwise) and training that all foster carers get. It also means that when you are 'on your own' after two years you can ensure that you get a proper support plan which should include special guardianship allowances and aftercare support if you need it.

I can't remember if anyone has mentioned the grandparents plus website, but do have a look at it.

Thank you. The SW did mention "low grade foster carers" and that if they are placed with us we will be paid as foster carers (although this is not the reason we want the children with us) for two years and then we will be "on our own". He told us that they have to have it all done by six months as the law has changed so that cases do not drag on for years. My husband has been to the review meetings but these stopped once the children were taken into care.

We had our latest contact yesterday and we met the temporary foster carer who they are with at the moment who seemed very nice, which has given us some peace of mind that they are being cared for properly.

We are waiting for the report that SW said he would do "straight away" (a week and a half ago) recommending us as foster carers. He has seen the property and knows that we have the beds/bedrooms in place for them so he has no issues with that.

It's just waiting around for the next step and the not knowing what is going on from our daughter's perspective. We know she's tried to use her past and my illness to stop them coming to us but we have fielded off those issues and SW has no problem with that at all. He knows that she is a pathological liar and will say anything to make her sound like an angel and get what she wants but this is not going to work this time.

Her BF thinks keeps telling he rubbish and as that is what she wants to hear she is listening to him.

I think if there is no communication from SW by the end of the week that hubby will go and seek legal advice on what the next steps are likely to be.

Thank you all for listening/caring xx

Suebee it sounds as though you are going to be assessed as kinship carers, either under a fostering arrangement or a special guardianship order, depending on which approach your particular local authority favours. The social worker is responsible for the children so you will need to be assessed in your own right by either a fostering social worker from the local authority or an independent social worker appointed by them. The mention of a financial assessment leads me to think they are suggesting special guardianship although this would also be included in a fostering assessment (though wouldn't have so much significance).

I agree with Iam, you need to be asking them how long all this will take and what is the proposed timescale for the children moving to you if that is the eventual outcome. Legal advice would be very helpful at this stage.

SueBee, it sounds as though your grandchildren are the subjects of care proceedings. In your position, I'd get a solicitor asap. The family justice system seems to be caving in under the pressure of much more proceedings leaving staff with unmanageable caseloads. This inevitably means things take longer than they should.
I don't understand what the social worker means when he says he recommends placement with you but there's a need for an independent assessment. Maybe you can speak to the children's guardian (cafcass) or the independent reviewing officer - have you been to any of the Review meetings/
good luck with all this.

Thank you for all your replies. We had another visit last Wednesday and have another one this afternoon. Last week was horrendous. We took the third grandchild (the eldest) with us to see his brother and sister. All they kept saying is "when can we come home with you?" Even the girl was saying "can I come to your house?" Questions we could not answer even though we just wanted to scoop them up and take them with us there and then. At the end there was tears from the boy and he was clinging to his grandfather for dear life, he would not let go, it was even more heartbreaking than the first meeting. I am absolutely dreading this afternoon's contact.

We had a meeting with the SW who said that he was going to be putting us forward to take the children in but that was over a week ago and have not heard anything since. We are not being told anything and are getting more and more frustrated by the situation.

After seeing our granddaughter last week we are under the impression that she is not as bad as everyone had led us to believe and that making her out to be a problem child was just a ploy to get more money.

We have been told that they sleep through the night (which they did when they were with us) so having the sleep services intervene was a nonsense also.

We have also heard that when the mother had contact last week the granddaughter upturned a table in a paddy, something which she has not done in our presence either.

This waiting game is just killing us and disrupting our eldest grandchild and his wishes (which no-one is taking into consideration whatsoever).

The SW told us that we would need to be "independently assessed" and have a financial assessment and get references but as yet have not heard when this will be or how long this will take.

First we were told that SW had 3 weeks (and I think it has now been 5 weeks since the Court case). We have then been told that they have 6 months to be done and dusted completely. Just wondered if anyone had any views on this.

Sorry again for the long post.

What I am putting here is my current concerns with the scenario presented as hypothetical not a particular a comment on those in this case.

I am concerned that the youngest child is referred to as "The Girl." I know you cannot use names but I do wonder whether that being ill when this child was born means the Grandmother may have found it difficult to bond with this child and has been stressed enough by the difficulties the daughters bad relationships have caused.
In which case some alternative care for her may be a better option. This needs a lot more assessment but keeping this child in this family because it's what's currently thought best practice is not necessarily a good idea.

Sorry SPF but the tone and syntax of your post somewhat contradicts the content.

My comment about Coram was aimed at the lady with the grand children issue not you Sugarpuffairy. I don't think you have been fair to the profession of social workers! My eldest daughter is a child protection social worker and is hard working and conscientious! She and her colleagues are severly under resources and over worked she has 2 little ones herself and is now giving up work because of the strain on family life! She works evenings preparing court ordered documents and weekends and often doesn't leave the office until 10pm none of them are paid over time for the long extra hours and they are given huge case loads all of which involve complex families often extremely hostile and with court and legally imposed time deadlines! It's a thankless job but a necessary one and people like yourself making sweeping generalisations about the entire profession don't help. I for one get fed up with social workers being blamed everytime something goes wrong no one looks at the work loads, the lack of resources and the constant changes in legal time limits imposed on them!