Reluctant Caregiver

I think Sally needs to go back to the doctor and plead for a care of the elderly psychiatric referral for Debbie. And she needs a Social Services review making clear she is only a neighbour.
So difficult and it won't be until she falls or wanders at night that action will be accelerated.
Is this in the UK? Just wondered as OP talks about the trash.

Sally needs to get on with her life, travel and be an artist etc. I am not sure where Debbie is now. I found that for a friend of mine dying of kidney failure I was put down as next of kin!! So yes beware. I am sure you have lots of good ideas from this thread and that it will be a relief to Sally if you show her this thread and you introduce her to Gransnet. All the very best in your discussion with Sally she she come s to see you. So glad she has got you as a friend.

quizqueen you took the words right out of my mouth. Yes, harsh as it sounds, if Sally were to move right away - nearer to you perhaps? - then Debbie would not be able to call on her for help. I know it's terribly sad and I can understand that Sally feels sorry for her old friend and probably would hate to feel she was abandoning her, but I think she has to be sensible and strong here, and think of herself too. After all, who's going to pick her up when she keels over from the stress of it all? Debbie clearly needs professional help. And Sally needs to be able to enjoy the retirement that she has earned and has been so looking forward to.
You must tell Sally to stand firm with SS (and yes, I do feel sorry for them too, as their workload with the cutbacks must be horrendous). They will get the message and sort out some proper care for Debbie.
Oh and yes, tell Sally to kidnap that poor dog too

I agree Sally must say NO to SS. Many years ago after my Father died my disabled Mum couldn't look after herself and we were harrassed by SS to have her live with us, My husband had always been only 'tolerated' by my Mum though we were verily happily and I knew that if she lived with us my marriage would end, so I said NO and kept saying it until she was put into a Home where she was happy eventually, and my marriage lasted 54 years.

that should have said very happily married

I am somewhat in that position at the moment. My sister is 12 years older than me (87) and has multiple health problems. She has sclerosis of the spine and is bent double, fading sight, and heart problems. They also think she has a mild sunset dementia. She lives a few doors from me and although we have arranged 4 carers during the day both DH and I are constantly being called to her day and night. At the moment I have had to arrange respite care for her following another fall and she is really angry with me. She says she looked after mother so I should look after her. She did for a few years before mum went into a home, but she was in her early 60s. We want her to either have someone there more permanently or consider residential care. She refuses both and wants to come home with the situation the same as before. Whenever anyone mentions anything else she comes back with" but my sister is just up,the road" Unfortunately sister has reached the end of her tether and has had enough. This weekend we are having a family chat and will have a talk to her to try to come up with a solution, but it so very very had to know what to do. Sorry for the rant.

Thank you all for your patience in reading my very long post and for your heartfelt advice. My dear friend Sally deserves to break free and she will get plenty of much needed reaffirmation from me.

The second part of that equation will be to get a definitive diagnosis so next steps can be taken. Given her current situation, Debbie shouldn't be living alone anymore...she belongs in a dedicated care facility. I haven't heard back however, so I'm guessing Sally hasn't gotten any results yet.
I will do my best to keep you updated as this situation unfolds.

P.S. Yes, I'm American and I live in the US (a few of you already knew that).

Social Services for seniors on this side of the pond, for the most part, seem to work the same way, even though they may be funded differently. (i.e. same stories... same attitudes.... same tactics, emotional manipulation etc.)
Things could get even more difficult for us now, if our current government has its way. Despite all the noise and bluster however, they can't seem to make any headway. In any event, how our two systems compare would be fodder for a different thread.

Oh millymouge I do feel for you, and I forgive your rant totally - you must really be at your wits' end. I think you will just have to be really hardhearted and insist that professional care, either at home or in a care home, is the only option. And tell any professionals VERY firmly that when she says 'my sister is just up the road', that sister is very definitely not able to take care of her. Be strong and stick to your guns on this. Good luck with the family chat about the situation.

Three big cheers for all of you good, kind women who have taken on the care of relatives, friends and neighbours!

You all deserve to be able to pat yourselves on the back and to hand the task over to the proper authorities, and please do not feel guilty about not doing more.

Millymough the situation you describe will in my opinion only be resolved in a way that will be good for your sister and you too, if you can persuade or "force" her into residential care. It sounds as if your sister has got to a point where she really needs a nurse, not just help to cope with her life the way she is living it now.

No one ever wants to go into residential care - we probably won't either when or if our time comes, but it is honestly sometimes the only sensible option.

grandtanteJE65 I'm a Chaplain in a Care Home and locally there are very long waiting lists of people who desperately DO want to come into residential care. I live in a town with an elderly population and for many the idea that residential care is undesirable is as far from the truth as can be. Homes now are very different from the institutions of the past (I accept that there still may be some out there that haven't moved on) and most offer a cross between a hotel and a cruise ship experience. Mine has pets, superb dining, a shop, regular trips out, sunny patio and garden, virtual reality experiences, clubs, weekly concerts, games, quiet rooms for conversation - and wonderful, unobtrusive carers and nursing staff.

Ga that sounds wonderful but may I ask what the fees are.
£1000 a week is usual here with nothing like those facilities.
Homes that take dementia patients are much more and have nothing more than care and restraint

yes, I agree with other posters here. Its time to "let go" for the good of both of them.

My SIL rented rooms in a house for years, but as her landlady got older and started having accidents, she began to dread going home.
The final straw was when the old lady had to go to A&E, and when asked if she had any help said 'Oh**** lives with me'. My SIL promptly made arrangements to move out!

SS were quite happy to let a lady on our estate look after her SIL when she became incapable of looking after herself due to dementia. This in spite of the fact that the lady was 85 and not in good health herself. She could only walk with 2 sticks, and needed help from her family for shopping, housework etc. herself, yet she was expected to get from her house to the other one, which was nearby, but meant her having to struggle up and down steps. This went on for months, before the lady with dementia was eventually placed in a care home. So your friend may have a struggle to get SS to take over from her. She will have to be very firm about things.

Just an update. At the moment Ssis is in respite care, she had another fall and was admitted to hospital for 4 days. I was advised that it would be a good idea to have respite care for her for two weeks which we arranged. It seems to be a very nice home, good reviews, plenty of carers and management that knows what is going on. It costs just over £1000 week. The first week was horrendous, she hated it, but the last week she has started to change. The food is extremely good and she is eating things that she wouldn't touch before, she is joining in the activities of which there are plenty. She has said that she wouldn't mind staying now she has made friends with some other ladies. She actually looked better than she has for ages. The point is that she will eventually have to sell the house to remain, she can self fund for about 7 months. She realises this but has said she wants to go back for a day to see the house and my concern is that if she does this she will want to stay. I have to see the Manager next week to confirm her residency and she can then choose a bigger room, respite rooms are smaller. She would then be able to bring her own items of furniture from home. I just don't know what to say, I can't refuse if she does want to go but don't know if it would be better to persuade her against it.
.

I would add that the doctor said he felt it was me that needed the respite rather than her, and I must say it has made such a difference.

millymouge rather than a whole day could she make a short visit, perhaps to choose the pieces of furniture she will have in her new room? If you booked a lunch or afternoon tea somewhere as well you could then make it a treat. It will be hard for her parting with her home but she has to realise it must be done. You have been amazing. Stay strong.

It really is up to your sister, Milly, as tempting as it must be to try and make her want to stay where she is. Hopefully she'll make the right decision. My fingers are crossed!

[trisher] that sounds like a good idea. I don't want to push her into anything but she has to,understand that if she returns home and with the cost of the care she will need, plus her home running costs, she will run out of savings quite quickly and then she will be forced to sell and go into care. It would be so much nicer to choose to go rather than be forced.

Sorry to hear your story Milly but getting back to OP
willa45 - Willa, your friend does need to step back, no matter what she feels. Firstly I would get her dog a new home! (yes am more of a soft touch with our canine friends) If the owner is able to walk him but refuses, it is neglect (RSPCA can be contacted if no other takers)

Also If it were me I would make an appointment with her GP, outlining the severity (send a letter even better so its in writing) Let the professionals know. Then walk away. Hard to do I know BUT it really is the only way, otherwise, they will leave your friend to get on with it.

Oops just read you are in US? Hopefully their social services will step in also? Otherwise, not sure what to suggest other than your friend deserves a break. I feel it for Debbie....but only so much Sally can do without giving her whole life up. Both deserve so much more.

Thank you dear ladies for all your good advice. I haven't posted an update because overall not much has changed. The only bit of good news is that the dog will be OK.

Sally was unable to visit as we had planned. She called me instead and we talked for over an hour. Debbie's flat needs someone to come in and clean, but Sally couldn't call anyone until dozens and dozens of papers, utility bills, credit card statements, insurance forms etc. with personal information, bank account numbers, IDs etc. could be sorted out and shredded. Sally fears new cleaning people could easily steal Debbie's identity, so she spent the better part of last week sorting, filing, clearing and shredding all of that.

She's also ready to fire Debbie's doctor because she seems uncaring and hasn't been of much help. She hasn't even bothered to contact social services. The other aggravation is that Sally has to make a new appointment so Debbie can get her test results. Sally can't really get any help for her without a proper diagnosis.

So, not much has changed unfortunately, and it's just a waiting game. We're currently out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday, so Sally and I have also postponed our visit for the moment.

Sally concurs that she has to break free and she intends to do just that, but...... she also said she would never feel right about it unless she can get Debbie into a good quality care facility.

PS. Margie, who once helped clean Debbie's flat (and who already has a dog of her own), has offered to take Debbie's dog until the situation is resolved. Sally feels Margie may even want to keep her when it comes to that. The dog has no pedigree but she's small, she's very sweet and she's just old with no serious health issues.

Final update: I don't like to keep people hanging, so I'm posting yet again.

Debbie was diagnosed with brain cancer, She had surgery to remove a tumor last week and was transferred to a rehabilitation facility today. In the short term she will probably regain most of her memory and hopefully she will have no worsening symptoms.

Most importantly, she is now safe and being well taken care of. Long term outcome will depend on how well she responds to treatment. Sally has been there for her throughout all of it.

Good news is that Social Services has stepped in. After rehab, she will be moved to an assisted living facility or nursing home, which ever is more appropriate. The goal will be for Debbie to reclaim some semblance of normalcy and have a better quality of life, however long that is.

Just found this thread and read through as I know someone in a similar situation (don't we all!). So glad there's been a satisfactory outcome willa. It sounds as if your SSis may be resolving her problems herself too. Hopefully when she goes back to see her house she'll find it cold and lonely and realise how warm, comfortable and companiable the home is. It's a big decision to have to sell one's home to pay for care as there's then no going back, but it is possible nowadays to borrow against it, rent it out to help pay the bills and then settle up - eventually. This can soften the blow and give the impression there is an alternative if the home doesn't work out.

Ooops. Most of that post was for Milly. A line and new paragraph went missing! Does it make sense?