Next of kin

I hope the Memory Service are going to act quickly now they realise how vulnerable she is welbeck. My aunt did tell them that the grandson had put the house on the market.

predatory marriage of older or disabled people is a well-known phenomenon, and sometimes linked to actual foul play, but is very difficult to prove.
and as for the old lady in this case, the problem is that things are not joined up or cross-referenced.
so it is possible to arrange a sale and have funds transferred, and those monies moved, esp if a party lives abroad before anyone has noticed or can do anything about it.
that is why i suggested a referral to social services as an urgent safe-guarding concern re possible financial abuse, and or neglect of need.

This poor lady, with her nearest and dearest, quick to step up tot the plate and say they are next of kin. where selling her home is concerned, completely indifferent when it concerns her well-being and care.

I've just spoken to my aunt, who has received a call from the Memory Service.

She was given time to discuss the complex situation she has found herself in regarding her friend's family, was able to describe her friend's behaviour in detail, and it seems the Service have been trying to contact the grandson who is listed as next of kin.

My aunt is really really relieved that something will now be done. I can't understand why I didn't do my research earlier, I think I tried and couldn't find anything - but better late than never.

For the past five years I was under the impression my aunt was going to leave her flat to me MOnica, she has continually referred to 'my inheritance'. I'd never asked her about it as I think it's rude, plus I think she'll have to sell it to fund her care. Somehow, recently, she told me I will inherit it 50/50 with my estranged brother.

I think I've said before that my mother lived with my brother and SIL and they benefited from her will - twenty years on I still feel uneasy about my mother's death, I don't think my SIL rang the ambulance in time.

My uncle, a solicitor' said the only time you beleive anything about a will is when the will maker is dead and you are reading it in print.

He said he had lost count of all the people he dealt with who had been told they would be left money in wills and weren't and had often made decisions on the promise. Only in the most exceptional of cases, do these people have any entitlement to money from the estate.

Why people make all these promises, I do not know. Sometimes it is just plain nastiness, so they can feast on the disappointment they know the person will suffer when the money is not forthcoming or whether it is fear that if someone knew their real uintentions they might try and facilitte the death.

What a story Witzend. Thinking about it thirty odd years ago, my best friend's godfather, who had always promised he'd 'look after her' when he passed, married his carer too. He died a few years later and she got nothing.

Thank you Monica, that is nice of you to say.

I retract my previous statement regarding the Adult Long Term Conditions organisation as she won't have been referred there yet, as she hasn't attended the memory club. I've just found the actual NHS Memory Club Service and phoned them. She IS on their list, I enquired as to when the clubs would be active, and someone is going to phone my aunt for a general chat. I said that she was her friend's staunch supporter and very concerned. I've phoned my aunt to tell her and she is very relieved, it's all been a huge strain for her, and she is so worried where her friend will end up as she lives for her garden. Thank you all for your support, doing these things long distance is very difficult.

It can be very difficult to get a person to agree to visiting GP or memory clinic for a diagnosis of dementia, since people often refuse to believe there’s anything wrong with them. And it may not be ‘denial’ as such, since at any given moment they can’t remember that they can’t remember anything, if that makes sense.

I know of a case where lack of a diagnosis enabled someone to virtually steal a substantial estate. A live-in carer, apparently with impeccable credentials, moved in with a parent with fairly early dementia. She soon turned him against his formerly very close family and refused to allow them to see him.

Subsequently she took him abroad and married him, without informing any of his family, and evidently got him to make a new will, leaving everything - a lot - to her.
And he died not too long afterwards.

The family took the case to court but the woman was so clever and plausible, that they lost.
The person who told me this suspected that the woman, a former medical professional, had contrived to hasten his end, but he had quickly been cremated - the wife’s choice as legal next of kin - so there could never be any proof.

An awful warning, if ever there was one.

Shandy57, You are ownderful doing so much for your aunt and her friend. Your latest search has hit gold dust.

Once this lady goes to the memory centre, they will properly assess her, she will have a clear diagnosis of the level of dementia and that will mean no questions at all about her lacking capacity to make key decisions for herself and the question of what happens to her and her house will be in the hands of her daughter.

Given what you have told us and some experience I have in my own family, I would think that she may well need residential care fairly soon and the money from the house will be needed to pay for it.

I've just done some research and found the Adult Long Term Conditions and Memory Service on the IOW, and spoke to a lovely young woman. It seems my aunt's friend isn't on their memory club list, somehow she's fallen through the slats. I've always had the friend's phone number for emergencies with my aunt, and luckily knew her surname.

With her permission, my aunt can phone them and pursue this for her, people are assessed at the club and receive the help they need.

Any proceeds from the sale of the house will need to go towards the cost of care. It's not realized cash. It does sound like this lady is in need of care and hopefully this is what the relatives are arranging. Not really anything else your friend can do now.

how can the house be for sale if the owner has not agreed this, nor understands that it is happening.
or have they already got her to sign papers passing title to them.
she sounds unlikely to be able to understand LPA, so legally cannot sign as the donor for that.
it would have to go to the court of protection.
the whole situation sounds dodgy. possible exploitative.
i think it should be referred to social services as a safeguarding concern. could you give them a ring.
i agree your aunt needs to step back.

As others have said, once there is a lack of capacity it’s too late to apply for POAs.

Being ‘next-of-kin’ confers no legal power, rights or responsibilities. Several of my clients have named me as their next-of-kin on their NHS forms when being admitted to hospital, and this is the only time when it has any real meaning. It means that I have standing with the hospital to receive information about the outcome of a client’s operation, or similar intervention, and I would be the first contact if any of my clients were to die.

It really is so terribly sad. My aunt has spoken to her friend today. Her friend said she didn't trust the two people that came to see her yesterday, my aunt told her two or three times during the conversation that it was her daughter and granddaughter. Her friend said the granddaughter took one of her coats, and was looking through all her paperwork?

I've advised my aunt to withdraw her offer of writing the letters, and to ring the daughter to say she can no longer be involved as it has now become so urgent, and encourage her to visit again and help her mother. I'm appalled.

too late for a straightforward power of attorney . you have to be of sound mind .

It is truly awful that it has got to this stage. The daughter did say to my aunt during the 'letter writing request' conversation she was surprised her mother kept crying during the visit - my aunt has told her this every time they have spoken, and it's fallen on deaf ears. My aunt has been the go between for far too many years with the daughter, I feel angry this daughter has allowed my aunt and her mother to deal with this sad situation. The grandson was the only one taking any interest. I hope the POA is sorted quickly and my aunt can stop worrying.

If this lady cannot recognise her daughter, her dementia has taken her past the stage when she can legally sign any document or make any decision that is legally binding.

Nothing can be done unless someone has a PoA

Thanks Monica, my aunt is very concerned and feels desperately sorry for her friend. I do hope the daughter now starts giving her mother the support she needs. The daughter told my aunt her mother didn't know who she was when she arrived.

The daughter works in a care home, it's so sad that she spends her days looking after other people's parents and she's left her own mother to it for the last decade.

Totaly agree with Nonogran.

Shandy57 What you say is really worrying. It sounds as if the nephew is cultivating his old aunt in order to cheat this lady out of her house, transfer the money to Cyprus and leave her homeless and penniless.

However, it can be stopped. At some time she will need to sign documents. Your friend needs to make sure that no documents are signed unless she is there and can see what they are, so that she signs nothing to do with a sale. Your friend also needs to get a PoA pdq.

The final resort is that this lady has dementia and does not have the capacity to make informed decisions for herself, so even if the forms for the sale get signed, they can be declared null and void for that reason and the sale will fall through.

Your friend and this lady need to see a solicitor to get her protected as soon as possible.

MOnica, the grandson is the only relative that has bothered with my aunt's friend for years, I think he is about 45 years of age. She loves and trusts him, but doesn't seem to realise her house is on the market and when it sells, she will have to move. He lives in Cyprus, and has phoned my aunt a few times for updates and every time she has said, you must come and visit and help your grandmother.

It does make me wonder how many people on the IOW are struggling in this way, considering the proportion of retired residents there they don't seem to have the structure to support them.

LPA doesn't have to be done by a solicitor.
that is very expensive.
the documents are available online and can be filled in and printed off for signing.
the donor can sign if she understands what it means, even if she already has some cognitive impairment.
mental capacity relates to each individual decision.
i was recently asked to witness a person's signature on these docs, done without solicitor. i've known her for decades and am aware of how she is presently. i asked her what she thought it was all about, and her answer satisfied me that she could make the decision and was doing so voluntarily.

I would be very wary of the grandson who has persuaded her to put her house up for sale. Why? where will she go? I trust he is fully aware that no matter what he does, every penny of the money from the sale will need to be set aside to pay for her care. Even if she just rents a flat to live in for awhile. When the need for care arrives. The whole of the sale money will be expected to be available. If he has spent any of it. SS will chase him to repay it.

I think this lady's daughter needs to get that PoA pdq.

There is no need to do PoA with a solicitor. It is very expensive but really easy to do on line.