Next of kin

The daughter should take her mother to a solicitor for this. If she wants to have power of attorney she can't just get a letter saying she is next of kin - she needs to get the proper documentation done. The friend may have reduced mental capacity but this is something for the solicitor to find out, it's not up to other people to decide. Even if she is becoming confused, she may still be able to sign the power of attorney forms - you don't have to be 100% perfect to do that.

I don't really understand why the daughter would need a letter from your aunt anyway - her own birth certificate would surely be enough proof that she is her mother's next of kin.

It has to be done legally not just on a bit of paper

It seems to me that before anything else this lady should be assessed by/ referred to her GP.
Your aunt does not need to write anything about next of kin. That is up to the daughter to deal with.

This is definitely something to be done legally. I'd stay out of it if I were you.

This is a request to confirm that the daughter is next of kin and has nothing to do with PoAs.

The daughter is next of kin. She is the daughter of the lady concerned. There is no harm in the OP writing these letters to the bank and doctor on behalf of her friend to confirm that this lady is indeed her daughter and therefore next of kin. It will enable her to talk to the doctor about her mother's health problems and if necessary get access to her bank account in limited circumstances to pay her household bills etc.

An application for a PoA is a quite seperate thing and will need to go through the Court of Protection.

Thank you all. My aunt did persuade her friend to go to the GP a few months ago, and after her visit, a psychiatrist was sent round to see her. The psychiatrist recommended she attend the local 'memory club', nothing else has been done for her.

I am sorry I confused the issue by asking about the next of kin as well as LPOA. The friend's grandson has already got next of kin status, and he has persuaded his grandmother to put her house on the market.

I believe the daughter will be looking for her mother to appoint her as POA next, and just wondered how others had fared when their parents mental capacity was reduced.

Her mother only deals in cash, is very frightened of spending money, and my aunt thinks it will be difficult to persuade her to spend the £400 plus at the solicitor's to do this. I feel so sorry her daughter has only just stepped up to the plate, my aunt loves her friend, and can't bear to see her suffering so.

As long as the person understands at the time of signing, what they are doing, it’s apparently OK.
So dementia doesn’t necessarily mean the person can’t grant P of A. Obviously it needs to be done sooner rather than later, though, because from experience, dementia can make people very suspicious that you’re just bent on stealing their money. (Speaking from experience here.)

Witzend is right. The person has to understand what they're doing at the time, so as long as they knwo what they're signing when they sign it, it's OK.

We got my FiL to give DH POA for his finances that way. I explained carefully what we wanted him to do and why. Then a neighbour - a retired medic - checked that he was happy to sign and oversaw that part of the procedure. We didn't use a solicitor, but did tell FiL that it was so that we could help him with his finances if he wasn't well enough to deal with things himself, so that he didn't feel that we were just taking over.

There is no need to do PoA with a solicitor. It is very expensive but really easy to do on line.

I would be very wary of the grandson who has persuaded her to put her house up for sale. Why? where will she go? I trust he is fully aware that no matter what he does, every penny of the money from the sale will need to be set aside to pay for her care. Even if she just rents a flat to live in for awhile. When the need for care arrives. The whole of the sale money will be expected to be available. If he has spent any of it. SS will chase him to repay it.

I think this lady's daughter needs to get that PoA pdq.

LPA doesn't have to be done by a solicitor.
that is very expensive.
the documents are available online and can be filled in and printed off for signing.
the donor can sign if she understands what it means, even if she already has some cognitive impairment.
mental capacity relates to each individual decision.
i was recently asked to witness a person's signature on these docs, done without solicitor. i've known her for decades and am aware of how she is presently. i asked her what she thought it was all about, and her answer satisfied me that she could make the decision and was doing so voluntarily.

MOnica, the grandson is the only relative that has bothered with my aunt's friend for years, I think he is about 45 years of age. She loves and trusts him, but doesn't seem to realise her house is on the market and when it sells, she will have to move. He lives in Cyprus, and has phoned my aunt a few times for updates and every time she has said, you must come and visit and help your grandmother.

It does make me wonder how many people on the IOW are struggling in this way, considering the proportion of retired residents there they don't seem to have the structure to support them.

Shandy57 What you say is really worrying. It sounds as if the nephew is cultivating his old aunt in order to cheat this lady out of her house, transfer the money to Cyprus and leave her homeless and penniless.

However, it can be stopped. At some time she will need to sign documents. Your friend needs to make sure that no documents are signed unless she is there and can see what they are, so that she signs nothing to do with a sale. Your friend also needs to get a PoA pdq.

The final resort is that this lady has dementia and does not have the capacity to make informed decisions for herself, so even if the forms for the sale get signed, they can be declared null and void for that reason and the sale will fall through.

Your friend and this lady need to see a solicitor to get her protected as soon as possible.

Totaly agree with Nonogran.

Thanks Monica, my aunt is very concerned and feels desperately sorry for her friend. I do hope the daughter now starts giving her mother the support she needs. The daughter told my aunt her mother didn't know who she was when she arrived.

The daughter works in a care home, it's so sad that she spends her days looking after other people's parents and she's left her own mother to it for the last decade.

If this lady cannot recognise her daughter, her dementia has taken her past the stage when she can legally sign any document or make any decision that is legally binding.

Nothing can be done unless someone has a PoA

It is truly awful that it has got to this stage. The daughter did say to my aunt during the 'letter writing request' conversation she was surprised her mother kept crying during the visit - my aunt has told her this every time they have spoken, and it's fallen on deaf ears. My aunt has been the go between for far too many years with the daughter, I feel angry this daughter has allowed my aunt and her mother to deal with this sad situation. The grandson was the only one taking any interest. I hope the POA is sorted quickly and my aunt can stop worrying.

too late for a straightforward power of attorney . you have to be of sound mind .

It really is so terribly sad. My aunt has spoken to her friend today. Her friend said she didn't trust the two people that came to see her yesterday, my aunt told her two or three times during the conversation that it was her daughter and granddaughter. Her friend said the granddaughter took one of her coats, and was looking through all her paperwork?

I've advised my aunt to withdraw her offer of writing the letters, and to ring the daughter to say she can no longer be involved as it has now become so urgent, and encourage her to visit again and help her mother. I'm appalled.

As others have said, once there is a lack of capacity it’s too late to apply for POAs.

Being ‘next-of-kin’ confers no legal power, rights or responsibilities. Several of my clients have named me as their next-of-kin on their NHS forms when being admitted to hospital, and this is the only time when it has any real meaning. It means that I have standing with the hospital to receive information about the outcome of a client’s operation, or similar intervention, and I would be the first contact if any of my clients were to die.

how can the house be for sale if the owner has not agreed this, nor understands that it is happening.
or have they already got her to sign papers passing title to them.
she sounds unlikely to be able to understand LPA, so legally cannot sign as the donor for that.
it would have to go to the court of protection.
the whole situation sounds dodgy. possible exploitative.
i think it should be referred to social services as a safeguarding concern. could you give them a ring.
i agree your aunt needs to step back.

Any proceeds from the sale of the house will need to go towards the cost of care. It's not realized cash. It does sound like this lady is in need of care and hopefully this is what the relatives are arranging. Not really anything else your friend can do now.

I've just done some research and found the Adult Long Term Conditions and Memory Service on the IOW, and spoke to a lovely young woman. It seems my aunt's friend isn't on their memory club list, somehow she's fallen through the slats. I've always had the friend's phone number for emergencies with my aunt, and luckily knew her surname.

With her permission, my aunt can phone them and pursue this for her, people are assessed at the club and receive the help they need.

Shandy57, You are ownderful doing so much for your aunt and her friend. Your latest search has hit gold dust.

Once this lady goes to the memory centre, they will properly assess her, she will have a clear diagnosis of the level of dementia and that will mean no questions at all about her lacking capacity to make key decisions for herself and the question of what happens to her and her house will be in the hands of her daughter.

Given what you have told us and some experience I have in my own family, I would think that she may well need residential care fairly soon and the money from the house will be needed to pay for it.