Mum refusing to let carers take her to bed

I actually think Debs4409; and her sister have bent over backwards to keep their mother in her own home under very difficult circumstances, and that the least their mother could do is meet them half way and accept that if the help she needs is at 9pm it is what it is.

A difficult situation when the caring agency are unable to help your mum to bed at a later time. I fully understand how your Mum feels , why should she be taken to bed when she is not ready? However I fully understand what a difficult situation this is. It is so easy for people to think she is being difficult and needs a firm approach! She is not difficult she is a woman who knows what she wants !!!

I think the bed downstairs would be an idea unless as suggested you can record programmes and stop then continue upstairs. How about the sky thing that has multi rooms? For those who say why 9pm and change agencies - most have a finite finishing time, lack of carers who would do night shifts and no capacity to do this later. Alongside the same issues with Covid and Brexit that are affecting other services. No warnings with Covid, plenty ignored with Brexit. I was a nurse, my cousin just retired as a nurse. Her PiL both required agencies through NHS to care for them in the evenings as well as daily (often several times daily) help from my cousin and her DH. They had excellent carers but most of them were from EU. Most of them went home prior to Brexit. The wages are shite! The care they perform are heavy and personal and often unpleasant (personal care after incontinence). Carers who do this are in the same position as care home staff with Covid precautions and lack of PPE. My cousins PiL are now both deceased and finished their days in care homes with the same problems with lack of staff and lack of PPE. There is a HUGE problem with looking after people unable to care for themselves in the UK. I worked as a District nurse. The carers are not given adequate nursing training, not given nursing qualifications, not given professional accountability and not given a proper pay structure that follows NHS pay. The younger ones who show promise are sometimes guided into nursing by District Nurses who spot potential but older carers may be unable to do that because of family commitments etc. I have often thought we need to pay more NI to help the care system and the NHS but OMG it needs to be managed properly and I'm not sure it will be. Sorry debs4409 for going on in your thread but there are many people in your situation and people have suggested bed downstairs. So glad your Mum is able to watch her programmes and enjoy. She sounds a real character. But hey - it is hard!

To me it seems that younger people, no matter how well trained, no matter how sympathetic and kindly they may genuinely be, they have never been old.

It could be all number of things.
Perhaps the carers rush her a bit as it's their last call?
Perhaps they arrive 10 mins early which would mean being put to bed before 9.
It could be a programme is interrupted.
She may like a hot chocolate or something to drink.
She may just be being awkward, or perhaps overtired by 9.
What time does she get up?

In an ideal world, the care should be tailored to your mums needs, but I realise things are rarely so.
I would try to address any reasonable issues she has before trying to make her do something she doesn't want to.

My 92 year old mother has a profile bed in the sitting room and often stays up very late to watch the sport on TV, but as she can watch it from her bed it’s not a problem.

Do you think something similar might meet your mum’s needs debs4409?

I don't
I meant I don't go to bed at 9pm and I do see where mum is coming from!

Do you go to bed at 9pm? I can see where mum is coming from
I don't!

Carers used to come to put MIL to bed at 9pm and she used to wait until they'd gone then come downstairs again. She never went to bed before 11.30pm or midnight as far as I remember.
She worried us but was of sound mind and very determined.

Do you go to bed at 9pm? I can see where mum is coming from. The problem is carers have to finish at a reasonable time. Is there any way you could have a live in companion/carer which a lot of organisations supply? Or maybe compromise on this for a couple of days provided mum goes to bed at 9pm the rest of the week. It’s a very tricky problem and old folk can be very stubborn and hate having their independence taken away.

I think it's not unusual for people to find 9pm early for going to bed. Equally, expecting carers to call later is unfair.

Would it be possible to ask your mother what she would like - offer some alternatives like bed downstairs, getting ready for bed but not being taken upstairs etc.

My daughter has careers and they come at around 8.30 for medication and help her get ready for bed. Carter’s have a long day and nearly all do the 8,30 to 9 ish at night. I believe your mother is being stubborn, this is one thing she has control over and I get it all the time with my daughter. Hers is she won’t have the heating on. She can say no and there is very little you can do about it. What happens if she won’t go to bed in the 9 time frame?

OH was reluctant to go to bed , just some nights , but it was the carers last call so they couldn’t really wait any later
Some Holiday weekends my DD and I did the needful but it took us twice as long and wasn’t easy
We never found an answer

Maybe the carers are more used to dealing with elderly folk who are more amenable to being told what to do and when.

She might just be fed up and feels like she's being treated like a little kid being 'sent' to bed at 9- i think I'd object too tbh.

Is it maybe one the carers shes taken umbrage with? Or is there a night shift of carers anywhere, maybe private, who could perhaps call at a later time? Or if you or a family member have transport could you pop round yourselves later than 9pm to help her to bed instead?(at least some nights a week?)Or as others have said, put a bed downstairs for her? (Could put some furniture from lounge into bedroom out of way) Or could there be way of hiring a home help or au pair of some type who could live in to help at night.?Or ask her if its her surroundings that are the problem? Could she be happier if its decorated to her choice etc? Might make her not mind about spending so long up there, maybe its depressing.??

If you can ascertain what the issue is it may be easy to resolve.
If it's the TV programme, could you/the carers help her watch it once in bed or, say, following day on catch-up for instance

Maybe a bed downstairs is the best answer , or a tv upstairs maybe she doesn’t want to sleep at 9 pm could you turn her bedroom into a bed sit so she can have a tv or radio etc and a comfy chair
Presuming she’s ok to get to bathroom in the night so could she get into bed herself if she was taken up the stairs and helped to undress into a housecoat Then she could watch her programmes and get into bed when ready herself

debs4409

Probably refused as she was watching TV and didn't want to be moved!!

Was she watching something on television and was simply wanting to wait until the programme had finished and objected to being told 'no' in her own home?

Then again the carers may need to go elsewhere and they do have their own off-duty lives to lead.

So moving might miss a chunk of the programme even though there is a television upstairs.

Is there some way of having a solid state television recording system and being able to easily access it from two different places in the same house? Would that solve the problem?

It makes sense what Zoejory wrote.

We have tried the route of a separate private put to bed service but given the huge shortage of care workers no one wants to take on just a once a day put to bed service and we can't afford for all her care to be privately funded.

could she sleep in a riser/recliner, or does she need a bed with sides.

can't she sleep downstairs.

Sadly the need to fit in with carers schedules is universal. I don’t have an answer debs other than trying to get her to explain what she is thinking and feeling. I appreciate this will take time to understand. I’m wondering how much she sleeps. Could it be that at 9pm the thought of hours of wakefulness is worrying and scary? Especially if she isn’t able to move around once in bed. Perhaps it’s trying to assert some control or finding being in bed uncomfortable. It is hard for you, I hope your Mum either comes to terms with her bed time quickly or a solution can be found.

can you ask for a a different agency that might do later calls.
or ask for direct payments so you/she can find her own private careworkers who will be more flexible.
i don't see why she should have to fit in with some arbitrary early bed time, just for someone else's convenience.
she is not a toddler. nor a prisoner. she makes her own decisions. should be able to live according to her own wishes.
though i know in practice, with disability, that can be difficult.

What abut the suggestion of a bed downstairs? If you camn fit one, and since there is a bathroom downstairs, that sounds like a really good idea to me.