Junior doctors strike

Listening to For The Many podcast. I hear that the Scottish doctors settled for 14% spread over about 3 years. The English Doctors strike is lead by some who have made very political statements and have made it into an attack about the wicked Tory government. Listening a lot to radio I sense that the public who were very sympathetic towards the doctors have had their patients tried when they hear that patients are unable to go home for Christmas because of the strike at present.

I was a trade unionist when I worked in Camden ( the only Conservative shop steward) and we stayed out for months.. The Union paid every striker £100 per week but those members with children found it extremely hard. I tell you all this because I am not totally against workers striking for better pay and conditions but it is not true that this government has refused to negotiate because even Jacqui Smith said they had tried! Personally, I think that it is ridiculous that medical students have to pay off their University training when we desperately need more doctors. It must put off those students whose parents cannot afford to finance their children to study medicine.
Doctors know they are putting lives at risk so they should get off the streets and get back into hospitals.

Sadly think you are right 😳

good for you and I am with you all the way!! We need to get rid of this appalling government who do not care about anything but themselves and as they use private doctors and want to shift us all over to the same and end up like America where if you cant pay god help you!! They have already privatised a lot of things by underhand and sneaky methods and added charges on for things that used to be free.

jocork

I have a friend whose husband is a nurse. For many years he has worked nights on the bank as the flexibility suited him (and I guess paid better). Recently he has struggled to get work and as a result they are struggling financially. My friend is a teacher and has ended up taking a small second job! We hear about shortages of nurses and also shortages of doctors so to me it makes no sense!

The problem with bank work is that when there is a money shortage it is easier to cut. It's one of the reasons it pays better than a permanent job. Your friend's husband gambled his job security against short term profit. He lost. Maybe he needs to think about a permanent post.

Bum face I applaud your courage, well said. It takes a lot to speak out when others are in total disagreement.

Bumface

I am rapidly approaching my mid 70s and for the very first time ever I have been 'asked to leave' ie. bounced from a party. (I was not drunk)
I was at a Christmas drinks do with neighbours and had put up with over half an hour, it seemed longer, of 'greedy junior doctor' talk. I had maintained a vacant but not unpleasant look on my face and not said anything. Finally, I snapped when a retired local estate agent piped up with "Its about time they started thinking about the welfare of their patients and not about lining their pockets". This from a man who made his, not inconsiderable, fortune during various property booms. Let's just say I will not be invited next year and will be ignored by most of my neighbours from now on. I am seriously thinking of moving next year; I shall try and avoid using an estate agent if I do.

Bumface I applaud you. I was only talking today to DD about how important it is to speak out against wrongs and injustices. It may come at a cost but hopefully one you don't mind paying!

I have a friend whose husband is a nurse. For many years he has worked nights on the bank as the flexibility suited him (and I guess paid better). Recently he has struggled to get work and as a result they are struggling financially. My friend is a teacher and has ended up taking a small second job! We hear about shortages of nurses and also shortages of doctors so to me it makes no sense!

I believe they deserve pay restoration and I support their action.

They have been trying "other methods" for twenty years and have been rewarded with more pay erosion.

Young doctors are some of the UK's most mobile and sought-after workers, and if the conditions (including pay erosion) for them continue to be poor and indeed to worsen in the UK, more and more of them will emigrate.

These are not workers the UK can readily replace.

Having lived with Dentists all my life and doctors most of my life I just hope the doctors do not go the same way as Dentists. We all need them but do we all have the money to pay private fees if Medical care goes the same way as Dentistry? I can answer my question no we don't. We need to pay a salary good enough to retain the ones we have and the ones we are training.
Equal rights for women which I believe in have altered the Medical world just like any other profession. Their needs as well as the males should be considered, only women can bare children and this must be considered in any planning allowing for maternity leave and part-time work.
The question then arises do our MPs think the same way as Atlee and Bevin? Somehow I doubt it.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-white-paper/waiting-times/november-2010

If anyone has forgotten that the last Labour government sorted out the health service have a look at the stats for 2010 on this link. That reflects the state of the NHS when it was passed over to the present government. If you can face it, look up 2023 stats and see the reality of the last 13 years.

Bumface

I am rapidly approaching my mid 70s and for the very first time ever I have been 'asked to leave' ie. bounced from a party. (I was not drunk)
I was at a Christmas drinks do with neighbours and had put up with over half an hour, it seemed longer, of 'greedy junior doctor' talk. I had maintained a vacant but not unpleasant look on my face and not said anything. Finally, I snapped when a retired local estate agent piped up with "Its about time they started thinking about the welfare of their patients and not about lining their pockets". This from a man who made his, not inconsiderable, fortune during various property booms. Let's just say I will not be invited next year and will be ignored by most of my neighbours from now on. I am seriously thinking of moving next year; I shall try and avoid using an estate agent if I do.

Good for you!

Yes Lulu and an ordinary back bench MP, who is frequently not even in Parliament judging by the views of the chamber I often see on television, will be earning £92,000 a year, plus very generous expenses, plus having his/her mortgage paid on his/her second home in London, which will remain his or hers to sell when he or she leaves Parliament. This package of benefits is thousands more than an NHS consultant earns after extensive training often amounting to around twenty years or so. There is no training required to be an MP. They often enter Parliament after never having had a proper job, having instead worked in the inner machinations of their chosen party.

Ilovecheese

If the Government wanted to end this strike they could. They don't want to because they want the public to blame the doctors and pave the way for privatisation.

You’re absolutely right. Like they want us to blame immigration and people on benefits for the state our country is in.

IMO doctors should be valued and I would rather be treated by a well paid, well rested doctor than one struggling to make ends meet and tired out after working unreasonable hours.
BUT!!! anybody asking for 35% increase considering the present state of the economy is beyond common sense. My understanding is that they have been offered what amounts to a 12% salary increase already.
People are dying, struggling to live with painful problems and not even going to the doctors because of the state of the health 'service'. Have they no conscience?

I can never understand how people think that they or their relatives will never need the expertise of doctors at some point in their lives.
The MPs have just had yet another pay rise.

What short memories a lot of people have. The Drs treated people with covid and many Doctors sadly diesd. We all including Boris clapped for the NHS. Staff.
Drs do so much unpaid overtime, if they all decided to leave work at the end of the shift the NHS would collapse. The independent pay board are told how much they can award to each group of staff. I support the junior Drs 100%

A well resourced and respected NHS, GSM? Absolutely one of my dreams. Not yours?

In your dreams.

Junior dr's are worth every penny, they save millions of lives every day, I am disgusted at the way this gov't runs the health service, they want it to fail so they & their mates can bring in an expensive private health care system.
The sooner we can vote this lot and get Labour in, they started the NHS in the 1st place & will fix it, the better

Possibly genetic foxie - my paternal grandfather was a lawyer, so was I, so is my son.

Thanks for your informative posts foxie48.

Germanshepherdsmum

So, given the numbers foxie has set out, why are people seeking an undergraduate place and running up huge student debt if for years there has been a problem in getting a training placement? The law is similar - hugely over subscribed with many students having no hope of getting a training contract.

I've no idea. My daughter decided to be a doctor when she was 7 and given a doctor's set for Christmas. She was very ill and had to have quite a serious operation when she was doing "A" levels and just missed getting a set of top grades so she didn't go straight to med school and tbh I thought she'd changed her mind but she hadn't. It's all she's ever wanted to do. My nephew's wife is a consultant surgeon, she never wanted to do anything else either. It is a vocation, I think, but that is not a reason to pay people poorly. I think a lot of people are attracted to the law because of the pay but a friend is a criminal defence barrister, her pay is pretty poor compared to most barristers but she is not money driven. OH's nephew was a very high powered investment banker but after 20 years he decided he'd rather use his skills in a different but more emotionally rewarding job. Thankfully, although we live in what seems to be a more acquisitive world, there are still people who remain pretty altruistic. Three members of the family work for National charities, poor pay but rewarding. Perhaps it's genetic!

So, given the numbers foxie has set out, why are people seeking an undergraduate place and running up huge student debt if for years there has been a problem in getting a training placement? The law is similar - hugely over subscribed with many students having no hope of getting a training contract.

Foxie48 sounds like Catch22. What’s the point in being given an undergraduate place if they then can’t be trained because of a shortage of doctors to so do

should be a gap between year and number!