Child Poverty

I think sometimes the lines cross between child poverty and child neglect ( or bad parenting.) To this day I remember the case of a boy sent to school in filthy clothes and given a packet of crisps for breakfast. He had no coat, even in December. His brothers and sisters fared the same. I investigated, with others, this case. His mother received enough in benefits to feed and clothe her family. It transpired she couldn't even be bothered to get off the sofa away from daytime tv to look in the charity shops, or even see to it there was food in the cupboard. Money, in the form of benefits really wasn't an issue.

When a child is sent out in deep snow in ankle socks and worn ballet pumps surely you have to question the nature of parenting?

EllenVannin I think you will offend many on Gransnet by suggesting there is no pensioner poverty.

There are school holidays as well. How do people manage then?

I was a widowed mother when my children were six and nine years old. I was one of the lucky ones financially, because my husband’s job had a pension scheme where he could choose good insurance payments for me and the children after his death. Prudently, he had done this. We were poorer than some, but basically comfortable enough.

What worries me now is that I know there is serious child poverty in this country, but I never see any evidence of it except on television. It’s odd, because I live in an area of the north west that is far from affluent. I would have to go deliberately to one of the poor areas of town to see evidence. Where I live, no extreme poverty is visible in the streets, the shops, on public transport or indeed anywhere. It is hidden in its own areas and doesn’t apparently venture out. If it weren’t for the media, I would not know it existed.

You are right Grandma70s that is why people can pretend that it doesn't exist.

Like others I saw child poverty most days of my working life towards the end of my career. I saw men targeting single parents and creaming off their benefits, mothers with no money to buy food or clothes for their children. Children with no mattress or clean bedding to sleep on. Children going to school not only hungry, but with no underwear or inappropriately dressed for the seasons. Children with one set of pants who smelled and were targeted by other children at school.

Sadly I had friends, relatives and even some colleagues who thought I was exaggerating. And my background was health, not social work!

gillybob you have mentioned that little girl before and the case sounds heart-breaking - the fact that she is so neglected and that the parent refuses any hand-me-downs makes it sound as if that is not just a case of poverty. It sounds more like a case of neglect and, in fact, like child abuse. Surely the school should be asking for a case conference?

I stand corrected MissA
Worse than I thought it was, then.

I was a single parent myself for many years and never received a single penny from my child’s father.
gillybob it's amazing what fairy tales some can fabricate to get out of paying towards their children's upbringing.

Is it also the case of really young girls falling pregnant, without the support of their family or the Father of their child/children. These girls could come from low income or poverty themselves, maybe some have had problems at school and have not got the education they should have.
What I am trying to say if somewhat clumsily that through no fault of their own they are ill equipped mentally, not well educated and have no household management skills to budget the money they receive, which is so sad the whole system has failed them.
I have not got the solution but fear that it is an ongoing circle of poverty and hardship.

I also want to point out, now I'm on my soapbox, that the way the job centre keep track of how your job search is going, is by having your email address, so they can log in to your jobseeker account.
Its all very demeaning.

Miss A I assume they expect all jobseekers to have a smartphone, tablet or access to the internet in a local library.

Well, they have computers in the job centre, so you can use those, but yes, it is expected that you'll be fairly tech savvy.
I was instructed to build my cv (which I had never done before).
I told them I didn't think it would do me any favours, because I'm more literate when writing than I am using tech.
"You'll be fine". They said.

Day6, When a child is sent out in deep snow in ankle socks and worn ballet pumps surely you have to question the nature of parenting?

My HT made it his practice to turn up at the homes of children like the one I mentioned and see what could be done to support them..
In this family's case, abject poverty, not neglect.
My school had the highest uptake of free school meals and clothing grants in the whole of the local authority.
Some children had nothing to eat from their free school dinner the day before until we made them tea and toast when they came to school the next morning.
Not everyone couldn't even be bothered to get off the sofa away from daytime tv to look in the charity shops, or even see to it there was food in the cupboard
One widow got up at 6am to clean schools before they opened, worked in the school kitchen and then went back in the afternoon to clean again. Despite this she was struggling to provide for her sons.
In some cases parents are so overwhelmed by their circumstances that they can no longer look after their children properly. Does that constitute neglect?

I was brought up in dreadful poverty, perhaps that has had an effect on my opinion.

Some children had nothing to eat from their free school dinner the day before until we made them tea and toast when they came to school the next morning.
I read a report a long while ago which highlighted the fact that some children dread the school holidays because they don't really get fed when there are no longer school dinners to rely on.

Our pupils had free fruit three days a week, but many children refused it. We were supposed to BIN what was left, but I used to discretely fill the schoolbags of certain pupils with the leftover fruit each night. At least they would have some food when they went home.

Does that constitute neglect?
I think that, if help is offered for the child without it being made obvious, eg via the teacher, and is then turned down, then yes, it is neglect, or worse, abuse.

School jumble sales used to be a good source of children's clothes before charity shops, which can now be expensive, became more prevalent. I know my friend used to gather together some decent clothes which she either paid for herself, or which hadn't been sold and quietly passed them on to some of 'her mums' for their young children.

Jalima1108, we did exactly the same as your friend, raided the lost property box and dressed a child in warm clothing or went out and bought clothes.
I'm finding this thread has wakened a lot of unhappy memories. Unless you have experienced real poverty, it's hard to understand what it does to a person. As children get older, they begin experience the shame and embarrassment of being poor and different from their peers.

I agree totally with those posters who’ve touched on the mental impact of relentless, grinding poverty with no hope of it changing. I know that child and adult poverty exists because I’ve spent many years since I retired being involved in voluntary benefit and housing advice and support.

I’ve frequently challenged people to produce a long term weekly budget managing to live as a single adult on the miserly JSA amounts and no one has yet managed it.

I’ve just read some ‘same old’ derogatory posts on another forum about foodbank users and how ‘no one needs foodbanks in this day and age’. It gets me so annoyed that people seem to prefer to adopt that kind of attitude when the evidence of need is there for anyone bothered to look fir it.

Fuel poverty is another thing. Many socially rented properties and the cheaper end of the private rental market have prepaid meters for gas and electricity so no cash means no gas or electricity and no way of cooking or heating even foodbank provided stuff.

My blood often boils. My own stance is that there will always be some who take advantage of the system but they are in the minority and I think that any supposedly civilised country should make sure that all its citizens have an adequate standard of living regardless of the fact that some less deserving might also benefit.

Don’t get me started on prepaid meters Tartlet they make my blood boil ! No money to feed the meter means no hot/cooked food, no heating, hot water etc. But the prices are inflated so the very poorest in society get ripped off !

I was a single parent of three who never had a penny off my ex We were poor BUT my kids never went without anything they had all their toys, clothes, shoes from charity (thrift) shops I made lots of things for them and I made lots of sacrifices (that’s not said for an ahh) I leant to cook really cheap mince dishes giblet curries spending ages breaking the meat of the neck bones etc
Poverty today has a very different meaning

There is no doubt at all that there are families in particular that fall through the net, problems with universal credit is a big contributor to that, the other major difficulty is mental and emotional problems that lead to so many being isolated.
In theory the benefit system does provide the housing and living essentials for everybody, and a single parent with a child who is able to work a few hours will live quite reasonably, wether that is below the arbitrary poverty line is academic. Those that cannot manage have some kind of other problem, addiction, domestic violence, unreasonable behavior are among the causes, child neglect should not be commonplace in the way it is and I have sympathy for and teacher that sees it every day and is powerless to do anything. But in reality those families are already being visited by Social Services who also can do nothing, until it gets so bad that children are taken into care.

What is needed is some kind of intervention that when warning signs are noted some kind of action is taken at a much earlier stage. There are several reasons why that won't happen, cash is one, attitude of parents is another, parental rights should not extend to allowing a child to be neglected.

Day6 I've weighed up many on gransnet and don't get the feeling of poverty-stricken pensioners. I'd have been bombarded with posts had that been the case so I reckon that I haven't " offended " anyone ?

Day6 I've weighed up many on gransnet and don't get the feeling of poverty-stricken pensioners
Well, you could weigh up many on mumsnet and find that they are well off too.

There is pensioner poverty and pensioners who are in poverty are the least likely of all in society to have a smart phone, an ipad or any other access to the internet and are not likely to have ever used it, nor will they.

There are also posts on GN from retired people who are struggling and worrying about heating bills, paying the rent or even being forced to look for new accommodation because their landlord/lady is evicting them.

Caroline Abrahams of Age UK said last year:

'With one in six pensioners (around 1.9 million) now living in poverty, not including the many thousands more who are just above this threshold and still struggling to make ends meet, the Government clearly needs to do far more

'It's hard to believe but despite such high number of pensioners living in and just above the poverty line, as much as £3.5 billion in money benefits remains unclaimed by older people every year.

I wonder if much of this lack of awareness of what is available in unclaimed benefits is simply because pensioners do not have the internet access that younger generations do have?

Jalima I think a lot of Seniors are too proud to claim benefits.

It's very sad but you could be right GrannyGravy.

I do think that lack of awareness is a problem too.