Child Poverty

Poverty is relative to the time and the place though. Some people would say that having a TV is a luxury ( well okay back in 1962 when I was born maybe it was ) but in 2018? I don’t think so . I get sick of hearing the same old “we didn’t even have central heating.....blah blah blah” well times have supposed to have moved on and children shouldn’t be living in cold, damp properties in a wealthy country in 2018 .

gillybob thanks so much for your post at 18.23 with your comments about 'relative poverty'. I was finding steam coming out of my ears at the suggestion that because children (rarely) walk to school barefoot, all is well. Baggs, I try to avoid personal criticism but honestly, your comments reminded me of the Three Yorkshiremen sketches by Monty Python. Luxury!
I'm late to this thread but it's restored my faith in gransnet posters because the vast majority of us can give first hand examples that knock the OP on the head.
I read Angela's Ashes years ago, when I was still working and face to face with real poverty on a daily basis. I still feel we're drifting back into the kind of social belief systems in some quarters, ie that we have deserving and undeserving poor. Tell that to the children arriving at school, who haven't eaten since their school dinner the previous day, who are smelly, cold and tired because their parents aren't coping/are addicted to drugs/alcohol or who are depressed and worn down by the poverty of their existence.
Some people must live special lives if they never see poverty in today's society.

The very fact that people are (apparently) getting into debt buying such things as new cookers and washing-machines says it all.

Oh, Baggs I can't believe you would say such a thing!

Would you really want a family going without a cooker and washing machine in this day and age, just because that's how it was in the past?

Of course people have to get into debt to buy a cooker, washing machine etc. How else would they get one? Please don’t say you should go without . It is 2018 for goodness sake not 1918 !

It seems that in spite of the Welfare State etc there are still many poor people, especially children.
Apologies to any anti religion, there's a prophesy:
"Deuteronomy 15:11 (BBE) For there will never be a time when there are no poor in the land; and so I give orders to you, Let your hand be open to your countrymen, to those who are poor and in need in your land."

Sorry that was not directed at you River

How on earth people can come on here and claim things aren't as bad as they were in the past is deluded.

Read my posts oldbatty

The case you quote is well-known, a case of child abuse where the child died. To use that case of a child stealing bread from a bird table is despicable imo.
It was a sickening case.

I don’t “do” religion Fennel but that passage is so true and as relevant today as it ever was .

I’m not familiar with the “bird table” case which sounds heartbreaking and obviously so much more than poverty going on . Down right neglect and child abuse it seems too.

How do you know I was refering to a case? You don't know, don't tell me what I say is despicable. To tell people they are not entitled to a washing machine and shoes is despicable.

You are not actually running this site are you?

Thank you Fennel, how true is that and how relevant.

oldbatty your examples detract rather than add to the argument against poverty because they are extreme cases of abuse and neglect which have been reported in the press.

If you have ever had anything to do with such cases you would realise the difference between them, cases of cruelty, and parents who struggle on extremely limited means to look after their DC as best they can.

You do a disservice to the many parents who want the best for their children despite the odds being stacked against them.

To tell people they are not entitled to a washing machine and shoes is despicable.
I didn't say that.
I think you are losing the plot oldbatty

GN can delete that if they wish.

We had to clear out DS's flat. As the washing machine was in reasonable condition, we offered it to a local charity.
They had three people waiting for a washing machine. It went to an old lady with arthritis in her hands, who was struggling to wash by hand. She had never had a washing machine in her life. I know this is accurate because I spoke to the men who were taking it to her home.
We were also inundated with people begging us to reduce the price of the cooker and fridge freezer, as they were desperate.
Perhaps the elderly lady should not have asked for help, climbed into the sink and stamped on the clothes, just like I remember my mother doing in the communal, tenement wash house sixty years ago.
Times have changed and as Gillybob has said and poverty is relevant to time and place.

Some will take electrical goods, some will not.

We have an 'upcycling' charity which will take anything.

Sweetie, it is all well to challenge us, but I did the first response to your thread and asked you for the sources for your figures and you have not provided them.

I have done my research. The Office of National Statistics has published figures showing that nearly 6 million households in Britain have incomes of less than £20,000 a year.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/adhocs/009331thenumberofukhouseholdsbygrossincomebandandage

Then there is the Gingerbread report. All of whose figures are referenced www.gingerbread.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/One-in-four-a-profile-of-single-parents-in-the-UK.compressed.pdf

You now have the statistics supporting all of us who disagree with your statements. Let us now have references to the statistics supporting your side of the argument

I didn't say that it was your comment J. I merely sited it as an example.

Do not insinuate I am insane and then throw out a comment to HQ.

Read my posts oldbatty before throwing unsubstantiated allegations against what I have said in my posts. I could take umbrage about the accusations you have thrown at me which are untrue but, quite honestly, it's not worth my time.
Thanks.

M0nica I worked out some figures earlier in the thread based on what Sweetie had said was the probable income of a single parent, and found them unsubstantiated too.

I could take umbrage about the accusations you have thrown at me which are untrue but, quite honestly, it's not worth my time
Thanks....... a familiar theme. A sort of passive aggressive you are beneath me.

I don't agree but I can't be bothered/toodle pip followed by variations on " you're mad"

I think the basics for any family in the U.K. 2018 should be;

A washing machine
A cooker
A microwave
A telephone
A television
Clean beds and bedding
A table and chairs
A comfortable sofa /suite to seat the entire family .

I fail to see how anyone could consider these items as luxuries .

Children also need an ipad or similar when they get to secondary school or else they will not be able to do homework, keep up with lessons etc.
Sad but true.

You forgot

a fridge

A basic computer/tablet. and internet access.

So many forms have to be filled in on line and if there are children there is so much that is educational that just does not work on a ......

smart phone.
One per household of those also necessary.

I would quibble over a microwave. It only heats things through and that can be done in the oven, I would also forget a telephone, by which I mean land line.

There is a another thread running where a single mother obviously cannot cope due to depression or some other mental condition and Granny is struggling to help. The child would be badly neglected otherwise, it's these cases where children are sent to school not fed and not dressed, the mother can't cope.

I have just had my boots re-heeledat a cost of £ 13, it's little things like this that add to the stress of living on a strict budget. There are also things like dry-cleaning, or having an appliance break down. Benefits just cover the bare minimum. I don't know if there are still grants for school uniforms but when my DC were young you only got one amount of money when the child started secondary school at 11, the next payment was at 13! Obviously childen didn't grow during this period!

I agree about the fridge ( how did I forget that?) and internet access ( computer, iPad) too. By telephone I meant “a” phone not necessarily a land line . But maybe in order to have the internet you need a land line ?? Not sure ? I dispute the microwave as if I was in a mad hurry I could microwave a potato much easier/quicker/cheaper than I could oven bake .

Two small examples, I am supporting somebody who is doing a college course....one of the tasks was compare two newspapers, he couldn't afford to buy them
A great deal of the course is on Moodle.He has no internet.

Tiny, tiny things which make life so difficult.

How many of us waste hours waiting for buses and traveling by bus? On and on it goes.