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Stop the badger cull petition. Please sign

(62 Posts)
Bags Sat 15-Sept-12 15:50:58

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38257

No need to kill badgers. They could be vaccinated.

soop Sat 15-Sept-12 16:02:19

Done!

whenim64 Sat 15-Sept-12 16:06:33

Me, too!

merlotgran Sat 15-Sept-12 16:24:02

Sorry. Have to disagree with you. They're not going to be wiped out, just have their numbers reduced and TB in cattle is a huge problem for farmers.

Bags Sat 15-Sept-12 16:30:19

Cattle can be vaccinated.

granjura Sat 15-Sept-12 17:11:41

It is a very very complicated topic, and there are no simple answers. I studied badgers for 30+ years when in East Leics. I was thinking about this today, as I came across several badger setts today as I was mushroom hunting, and so many signs of badgers. Why of why is there no TB in badgers here in Eastern FRance/Switzerland? Could it be because there is no TB in cattle? As badgers flip open cow pats to feed on grubs growing within- if cattle are infected, badgers will become infected, too- and the vicious circle is established.

TB in cattle in the UK has spread like wild-fire due to uncontrolled movement of cattle from herd to herd, and area to area. After the terrible foot and mouth outbreak a few years ago, the North-East was re-populated with cattle from the South West, were TB was rife!!! So many herds are behind with their TB testing, and still move cattle around. I have huge sympathy for farmers losing live-stock - but some of them are their worst enemy. It was shown for instance that feed troughs are often contaminated by badgers as they feed in them at night - but farmers stubbornly refuse to cover troughs in areas where badgers have clearly been feeding near cattle barns.

A cull sounds very simple... and yet. When independent scientists were asked to prove the link between badgers and TB, they thought the research would be conclusive within a year. But the independent scientists were baffled by the complexity of the results. They trialed 3 different areas. 1 where all the badgers were culled, irrespective of TB, 1 where all the badgers tested for TB were culled, and 1 were no badgers were culled. Guess where TB increased rapidly? Area 1, where all the badgers were culled!! The scientists could NOT believe this and tested again, again, each time with the same results.
Fact is, badgers live in very close clans, where foreign badgers, and any badger who is diseased, is not tolerated and forcefully evicted. Those badgers then become fugitives, and often die as they are not able to find a clan, and therefore a territory where they can feed. But if an area becomes free of badgers, then they can move in and try and make a 'living' there - thus areas cleared of badgers become vacuum for any diseased badger out there- hence the increase of badger to cattle transmission.

Therefore, badgers would have to be ALL killed for it to work- and this is just impossible, for so many reasons. There is a huge numbers of farmers and land-owners who will refuse to let the killers on their land. Already in some areas the guys going to shoot the badgers have requested to be masked so no retaliation from the local population will be endured. Can you imagine masked men coming to the woods near your village- with powerful guns- no name, no identification number and wearing a balaclava- and forcing their way onto your land, without permission, to start shooting every night for weeks. I knew every badger sett in Leicestershire, and about 50 % of them were very close to housing, public parks, shops, industry, etc.

TB thrives in stressed individuals and herds, just like it thrived in poor areas of Britain - better husbandry, feeds, a maximum of one calf per year, and an effective testing and immunisation programme is much more likely to deliver a big reduction in TB in cattle, and in badgers = the biggest scapegoat in a long time.

whenim64 Sat 15-Sept-12 17:31:14

Thanks Granjura that is very interesting and helpful. I'm going to read it again a couple of times more, as there's so much information to take in. smile

Bags Sat 15-Sept-12 17:38:16

VERY interesting read, jura. Many thanks.

Bags Sat 15-Sept-12 17:39:12

What I don't understand is why the farmers are so resistant to effective measures that would deal with the problem. Is it just laziness?

whenim64 Sat 15-Sept-12 17:50:30

What about conservation Granjura? Could healthy badgers be used to repopulate areas where numbers have dropped? If is known that fugitive diseased badgers will move into areas where culling has taken place, what has stopped the authorites taking postive action? I don't understand why TB testing has not been stepped up, vaccinations been increased. Should farmers be made to vaccinate all their cattle, and stop moving them around as much? Badgers are beautiful animals and need our support and protection.

granjura Sat 15-Sept-12 18:00:47

Not sure what you mean by conservation. Fact is, badgers are plentiful, and by no means an endangered species in the UK - bar the cull of course! The only reason they have had such good protection legally, is due to badger baiting and badger/dog fighting (traditionally in the old mining areas, like the North East and Yorkshire, parts of West Leicestershire, etc. and because of the constant blocking of setts by the (fox) hunts, and lamping activities (the reason I stopped badger-watching, as coming across lampers in big jeeps with powerful lights, wearing balaclavas and with powerful guns- was very scary- and they are NOT nice people, I can tell you.

granjura Sat 15-Sept-12 18:05:15

BTW if you ever wanted to go badger watching safely (the best time to see the cubs playing 'king of the castle' being in May) - remember there is a Badger Group, part of the Badger Trust, near you. I first got interested in badgers when I saw one dead by the side of the road. It had been killed instantly by a car, so totally undamaged- and was so beautiful. I asked my local vet where and how I could see a live one, and he gave me the address of my local group. I phoned and was invited to go watching with Bill, now no longer with us- and it was magical- I was hooked.

Fortunately I've found a big badger sett in the woods behind our house recently, so will be out there watching the cubs next May. No lampers or badger baiters around here - pheeew.

granjura Sat 15-Sept-12 18:06:37

For more info, and local groups:

www.badger.org.uk

Nelliemoser Sat 15-Sept-12 18:09:22

If badgers have no natural predators now in Britain because we have driven them out of our country over 1000s of years and their numbers and health issues are causing problems is it really unreasonable to cull numbers? How do people feel about controlling rats? They are also native furry creatures. Grey squirrels! These are having to be culled in areas where they are trying to maintain our native red squirrels. My point being; all of these issues are very complicated indeed. Logically and morally if we don't cull badgers why should we control rats?
Now there's putting the cat amongst the pigeons.

Marelli Sat 15-Sept-12 18:09:54

Signed.

whenim64 Sat 15-Sept-12 18:28:23

I was thinking conservation in terms of breeding protected healthy badgers to return to the wild if culls are allowed to take place Granjura. I can watch badgers play in a friend's garden. They'll do anything for a peanut butter sandwich. The thought of them being hunted down is terrible. The few houses near their setts all know about them and keep an eye out for their privacy, but the setts are by the perimeter of a golf course, and not that hidden from ramblers.

shysal Sat 15-Sept-12 18:28:30

Signed for purely selfish reasons! I love watching badgers in my garden and feeding them. I am in favour of vaccination of badgers and/or cattle.

Anagram Sat 15-Sept-12 18:29:56

Nelliemoser, there are (very approximately) 300,000 badgers in the UK, whereas there are over 80 million rats. If the rat population wasn't controlled, it would pose a very serious health risk.

goldengirl Sat 15-Sept-12 20:14:15

Signed. I totally agree with what has been said about the cull. We've been down this route before some years ago and of course, for the reasons stated here, it has had little or no effect. People just want an excuse to shoot and kill. I was brought up in the countryside. My parents had a badger sett in their garden and my father had farming experience and no way would he intentionally kill a badger. It's up to farmers to look after their cattle properly. A cull is just not going to work. Oh dear, why can't we live together peaceably? Why do we always want to hurt other creatures?

Grandmama Sun 16-Sept-12 19:18:52

Better animal husbandry is the answer and less moving around of cattle. Badger culling is not the answer - as noted above, if an area is cleared, other badgers may well move in. Am I right in thinking that there is no bovine TB in Scotland?

merlotgran Sun 16-Sept-12 20:39:55

www.defra.gov.uk/food-farm/animals/movements/cattle/

There are strict rules regarding the movement of cattle.

granjura Sun 16-Sept-12 20:54:19

Stupidly enough, merlotgran, TB testing ans status for individual cattle and herds, is NOT part of the cattle passport sad

Anagram Sun 16-Sept-12 20:59:42

On Countryfile tonight they said that a vaccination for cattle against TB would not be available until 2015.

granjura Sun 16-Sept-12 21:24:23

It would be interesting to hear the reactions of any Gransnetters from West Somerset and West Gloucestershire, where the trial culls are due to start this autumn.

Not just about the cull per se, but how it will happen. With un-identified men in balaclavas shooting all around them for several weeks?

Lilygran Mon 17-Sept-12 11:57:11

Done. Appalling idea.