Male/female traits and characteristics

Nightowl exactly. (The last bit, not the Oliver James bit) I speak as the eldest of three, and my middle sister definitely has 'middle child syndrome'.

My daughter has that OGM. I mistakenly thought that as the only girl between two brothers she would have a special place to make up for being the middle. But no, it seems not. If only she knew (I hope she does) how precious she is and as my only daughter, how much I value her friendship.

Way back in about 1956 my dad's sister in law had four boys and the youngest at about 3 wanted a dolls pram for Christmas and got one. Good for you Aunty Kath!
In the 1980s my neighbour insisted her daughter was never going to play with trains, what a sad attitude.

My DS (1st born) had an Action Man but spent a lot of time tucking him up in bed. DD was a very girly girl, despite my very best efforts to allow her to be the Tom Boy I was.

I think its all in the genes, our kids will do what they want as long as we don't put them off by sending disapproving messages if they slip from gender stereotypes.

I expect a lot of you have already seen this:m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=r-b7d48eA8M&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dr-b7d48eA8M&gl=GB

Just to add a slight detour, most of the people I know on the Autistic Spectrum are rather androgynous in behaviour. The "Extreme Male Brain" theory of Asperger's - which seems to ignore the females (Hmph!) is somewhat upset by the substantial number of Aspies who transition male to female.

Autism is genetic, so are the other factors here genetic as well?

Anyone else know people who have transitioned? Male to female is a lot more common than female to male but I know both.

Just come across this thread, and am interested in the 'cissy boy' difficulty. I used to run a playgroup (20 years ago), and some of the boys were being encouraged (usually by dad) to "hit back", "punch him before he punches you", and fighting was labelled "a bit of rough and tumble". One boy loved to dress up in fairy dresses. His dad found out and asked us to stop him (we refused, explaining that it was important for all children to explore as many roles as they can before prejudice and stereotyping set in). Another boy I know loved (perhaps still does) the colour pink, when he was 9 or 10 years old. It's so much harder for the lads than for the lasses. (Sigh)

We adults are still so prejudiced (and I count myself in here, despite intensive training and 'counter-indoctrination' !), and it's so hard not to let it show. Maybe in another 20 years...

I can see where Oliver James is coming from with his 95%, but it's not easy to re-educate oneself, however hard one tries!

jorj I understand what you are saying about lads and lasses and the difficulties for the boys, i.e young children. But it is still so much harder for the young women when they get older.

jorj it might have helped had you known then (and been able to convince one of those fathers) that boys were once dressed in pink (as a warm, active colour, suitable for hot-blooded males) and girls in blue (to show how calm and peaceful they were)

Fashions change! But fathers' desire to have their boys "manly" seeems to go on.

'Glasses,' spectacles were my training to survive. I already had curly hair and was pretty, when my school teacher decided I needed glasses (the first free National Health ones). From then on I could not fight or play rough, in case the glasses got broke, and therefore could only achieve anything with words and softness - and I learned the ways of girls. (cont.)

I remember being told that the main difference between the sexes is in what motivates them. That the main driving force for girls and women is to please others and the main driving force for boys and men is to please themselves.

A sweeping generalisation of course..........

Daman That was good training!

Are you sure notso?

So hard to sort out even the nature /nurture aspect.

Did anyone else see the research where they dressed babies (about 6-8 months I think) in stereotypical boy/girl colours and asked people to go and play with them? Babies in pink were spoken to more & in soft sing song voices, told they were pretty & cute & handled more gently: rocking and cradling. Babies in blue were responded to in louder voices, told they were strong /big and were handled in a more robust way: held up high /jiggled!

Of course they had 'cross dressed' the babies. Guess they were trying to show that even though people think they treat boys and girls similarly sometimes we do not!

I remember reading long ago (sorry can't quote) that the same characteristics that are generally applied to women could also apply to slaves - patience, subtlety, interpretation of non-verbal communication, empathy, a taste for emotion-releasing song and so on.

The parallel was made of them both being in a weaker position, controlled, dependent, prevented from expressing anger or needs, needing to know what was going on in the mind of a more powerful person ......

Wasn't the pink/blue thing something to do with a member of the royal family painting a nursery the wrong colour [or something like that]. Bit like the white rose/red rose thing in Alice . Sorry I'm being a bit obtuse today [more so than usual].