Useful guidelines

Bags

If your question was aimed at me then I shall answer with NO.

Has anyone said that school bullying should be stopped. I don't mean anyone on G.N. I mean anyone.

I don't know why I asked , the same as I don't know why you asked.

Has anyone said that the trolling on children's phones that causes such deep distress is not bullying? I don't mean anyone on GN; I mean anyone.

I'm a psychologist and I thought it was an excellent description.

I am interested in your description of a bully, POGS - is it just your personal opinion, or that of a psychologist?

A description of a bully will include, egotism, bossiness, shallowness, possible lacking for 'genuine' human empathy, believe they are superior whilst at the same time capable of showing puerile tendencies. Shows a distinct liking to control people and events.

The poor child who has only just committed suicide, because of 'trolls' is a classic case. Some will say it is free speech but when free speech crosses over the line, sadly all too often these days, and serious damage is done, those same people easily suffer from amnesia.

It is a point to remember the degree of a persons perception of what is classed as bullying will inevitably vary. Therein lies the problem and why bullying will never be erased because a person who bullies simply has no will, want nor understanding of when they may be crossing the line another person finds unacceptable. They will simply say they are mice, weak, always moaning they are being victomised. They are empowered by others weakness to confront them and when they are confronted they usually become the weak, victomised person they dislike in others.

Bullying will never go away, it is a menace for children and adaults alike. I think it will only get worse given the anonymity Face Book, Twitter etc. affords the bully to flourish.

Quite, bags.

Fraught indeed, as an abuse of the system by an unscrupulous type could mean that the person being investigated for doing the bullying was actually the person being bullied!! Scary.

bags and greatnan
Personally I would agree with your definition of bullying, ie there had to be an intention to hurt someone.
But employment law in this country certainly does not recognise that definition.
If an employee feels intimidated or bullied, then by definition they have been, even if there had been no intention, and the employer has a duty to investigate, and take any necessary action to prevent it happening in the future.
We may not agree with it, but that is the view the law takes.
I think the Internet and social media have added a new dimension for which it is very hard to legislate and as lily says, fraught with danger.

The article said everything I think about censorship - Mills was prescient, wasn't he, describing exactly the situation where it is against the law to incite people to commit crimes but not to simply declare your
own views, even if they are at odds with the views of others.
I don't think the situation of young people or children being bullied on a social network site is equivalent to adults being told that somebody holds opposing views to their own.
I am sure every right-thinking person is horrified by the man who posted nasty comments about April, and the one who wore the tee shirt, but I would have thought that the disgust of the majority would have been sufficient to convince them of the stupidity of their actions. To make it a crime to say something just because somebody else takes offence at it seems to me to make a nonsense of the law. There are some people who take offence at the slightest thing, even where no offence is intended.

(And I may be very shy in 'real life' - there is something about anonymity that emboldens one!)

jane, my view is that bullying involves a deliberate intention to hurt someone physically or psychologically. Talking in general terms about any topic does not usually involve that deliberate intention, I would have thought. In the latter case, it is talking simply to express, possibly to persuade by reason, but not to force in any way.

So, yes, school bullying should be stopped because it is malice aforethought.

The article covers incitement to hatred and violence, which is something else again.

Thanks, Bags for the link. One more step along the road to 1984.

Come on greatnan !!
You're not going to convince anyone you're a shrinking violet

Ah, that is just physical - posting comments on a forum is much scarier!

Thanks bags interesting article.
I can accept reluctance to police the web and prevent free speech for political and religious views, but does that liberal attitude extend to personal bullying?
What about children and teenagers who have become suicidal as a result if Facebook bullying? Or horrible pages that have been set up after someone has died? Should that not be policed?
Do we believe in free speech absolutely, or is there a line to be drawn and if so where?
Interested to hear people's views.

How can a woman who goes yomping around Alpine tracks on her own claim to be short of self-confidence?

An apposite article John Stewart Mill and the Twitterati in the Spectator on free speech.

Same here!

Wish I'd yours, greatnan I would post a lot more.

Wow, Elegran, I wish I had your self-confidence. I am sure most of my posts add nothing at all to the sum of human knowledge (except my jokes, of course!)

And golden Labradors are adorable soop

Soop Sad. Our animals and animal friends are so much part of our lives. 17 is a good age and rescued from a bad life to a good life is a splendid thing.

Have just heard that our dear neighbour's faithful dog [rescued from a cruel life 17 years ago] died this morning. She was a gentle and beautiful golden labrador. Everywhere our friend went, Amber went too. I'm feeling sad. I'm therefore going to say farewell to you all. Until tomorrow. xx

Elegran you are priceless. Thanks for a fun-day.

Thinks (quietly) Am I a closet wimp?

To answer your question, POGS, I can't say I have felt intimidated, but that could be because I take the temperature of a thread before posting a reponse, and I only post if I have something which will add something to the sum of human knowledge (as displayed by what has already been said)

Also I am a bit slow at typing, and I like to try to be sure that I have put it how I meant it, so by the time I have composed a suitable reply, I wonder whether the talk has moved on and often take a copy of what I wanted to say and look back, then paste it back in to send. Very often my contribution is irrelevant by then so it is better ditched.

It is very easy to dash off an instant reponse and then regret it.