Boycotting Amazon

And that is where we disagree Bags- we can do something, with a massive boycott of those companies, and if enough of us do it, it will make an impact I am very sure- and as said before, it wouldn't have to be for very long. So little inconvenience, and how can it possibly take any energy???

I won't be inconvenienced whether I do anything or not, jura, since I have hardly used Amazon or starbucks. That isn't really my point. You believe that a boycotts will make a difference; I don't. Witness the Nestlé case, and no doubt others. What I believe is that national governments acting together to improve the fairness of tax laws might, eventually, make a difference. On a personal level, I don't believe there's much I can do. Anyone who believes otherwise can do what they think right of course. I used to think the same way as you do but experience (plus, perhaps, the cynicism of age) has changed my mind.

At least we agree that we disagree

I hardly use Starbucks, but I do use Amazon and will continue to do so. These people are avoiding, not evading, tax and until the law changes, nothing else will change.

I really don't think some people boycotting these companies will make an iota of difference. Their sales are huge and they won't even notice.

Thanks Bags, it is good that we can agree to disagree.

janthea - they won't notice if the boycott remains marginal- they will notice if the boycott is significant. Which is why I am so disappointed by the response.

We are going round and round - so perhaps best to leave this conversation.

For those who wish to register their reason for no longer using Amazon's services, find the "Help" topic in small print at the bottom of most Amazon pages. When the Help page opens, there is a yellow "Contact Us " button on the right hand side. Click this for communication options and let them know how you feel.
To contact your MP (or find out who it is), just do a search on "MP for__________" and contact details will be avaialble. If we want the govt to change the tax laws, we have to let our representatives know how strongly we feel.

It seems Amazon have pointed out that they employ many people in this country and pay rent on many business premises.

Hmmm yes - many small and big businesses do. That does not exempt them from paying fair taxes, does it?

Yankeegran, done

Didn't take much energy either, I can assure you

What is tax for anyway? They are 'up there' in the sky keeping the sales going and most of the workers will pay income tax because they are the ones using the roads and schools. Have I missed it? Is this one of David Cameron's ideas? Its like David and Goliath. How can he bring these megacompanies to heel unless he really starts to change the laws and close ALL tax loop holes.

That would be a better start for him. He just acts to create head lines in papers and curry favour with the electorate.

I have been with Amazon since it was a little bookstore and am not going leave now.

Bags I know this forum has moved on from page 5, but I haven't yet. Sorry, I missed the piss taking – I have told you several times I HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOUR. Please be kind to me. I don't do worrying needlessly, or at least not about multinationals.

Will Gransnet HQ be expected to boycott Amazon as well as members? After all, whenever an author is due to come on a live webchat and the free books have run out, we are told they are available from Amazon.

Don't give up yet Granjura.
For those of you who think that boycott's do not work, I did a search for Boycotts.
On Ethical Consumer there is a long list of the changes that boycotts have made. They did actually work for Nestle, Bags. Libbys fruit juices ended its agreement with Nestle because of the babymilk problem. And a spoof ad by Greenpeace got Nestle to change its palm oil suppliers after only 8 weeks campaigning.
Just think about what happened to the fur trade and circuses after animal rights groups boycotted.

Kleenex and Andrex have changed their paper procurement methods because of boycotting. I have always said to everybody who thinks they have done their bit by recycling paper, that there's not much point unless they always buy recycled paper as well. They usually agree and do so.

I am a member of Viva! We boycotted shops and restaurants who sold foie gras and kangaroo meat along with other exotics. We do not see many stores selling foie gras now.
Look at Burma. If it wasn't for boycotts, many more companies, such as airlines and oil companies, insurance companies and clothing companies like Kookai and Cotton Traders, would have carried on trading in Burma.

Look at the stores that have stopped selling bluefin tuna.

Boycotting the sugar traders helped get rid of the slave trade, and boycotting the 1911 census by suffragettes helped women get the vote, that most of us did not use last week.

Oh don't worry - i don't give up easily. But I'll give up on this thread on GN, sadly.

When I woke up this morning, granjura, I decided that I was going to do lots of work on my family tree. However, I checked on Gransnet first, and that was that.
Haven't looked at my family tree.
Been checking up on all the politics instead in the newspapers and on taxresearch.org, etc.

Anyone who thinks we should just leave it up to the politicians, I hope you watched Channel4 Dispatches, about how they have been fleecing us yet again over house rentals and telling us it's all still legal.
How can we really trust them?
Panorama was supposed to be about how to dodge tax. It was about Hillsborough instead. Not that I do not think that that's important, but why was it changed?
Conspiracy theory again.

Sorry, absent, I keep forgetting you say you don't have a sense of humour. You'll just have to skim over my piss-taking and ignore it.

Why was it changed indeed? I turned TV on to watch, and thought I'd made a mistake???

No apology either, as far as I am aware. I had to record the beginning as well as the end of the Dispatches, as my son was on the phone, so did I miss it?

Tried to pm you Jendurham- but somehow was not able/allowed to????
Could you try to pm me to see if it works? Thanks.

It worked granjura.

Earlier on in this thread there was mention on Nestle and I talked of York and Rowntrees and the Rowntree Foundation. They are now doing research into austerity and filming people about housing.
There is a film about a little girl who was living in a onebedroomed flat with her parents with mould on the walls and ceiling. The council gave them advice to turn off the heating to stop the mould regrowing. They had to accept this flat as permanent otherwise they would have nowhere to live.
Rents are very high in York.

The little girl died just after filming had stopped from cot death. They could not say for definite that the conditions contributed to her death.

This is York, for God's sake. The seventh richest country in the world and the living conditions for some people are so dire, they are worse than the slum clearance that happened at the beginning of the last century, when the Rowntrees were doing their work on poverty in York.

And you lot quibble about whether to boycott companies that do not pay their taxes in this country!
Go on, make a joke out of that, someone!

We seem to be agreed on what needs to change. The differences arise as to how to achieve it. People will adopt various methods to effect change, as they think fit. Or they will be apathetic. Normality reigns. Some people will screech about normality not being good enough. Hey ho.

Only the other day absent posted something very funny.
I do find this thread strange.
There are many more obvious causes to get passionate about than this, many of them would be glad if retired people would get involved. There are many injustices being done to people in the UK and in other countries. There are many examples of damage being done to other species and ecosystems.
In all of these there are obvious victims - children, women, endangered species etc. so the chances of engaging "hearts" and getting a big boycott or other action going are far higher. (Yes I know there are lots of indirect effects of poor tax returns to the exchequer)
I think that HMRC should pursue individuals who evade taxes while benefitting from living here. And they do benefit - rule of law, roads, NHS (which everyone needs in an emergency).
International companies will always be able to move their money around in ways that minimise their tax burdens. They just set up various subsidiaries and trade between them, making sure that the profit ends up with the corporate entity that sits in a low tax zone. It is relatively easy to do and impossible to legislate against. The only way to mitigate is to have an international agreement that makes the likes of the Cayman Islands impossible. That ain't going to happen.
So I am mystified as to why people a/ are choosing to get so enthused about this particular cause and b/ why they think either personal action or lobbying is going to make a ha'porth of difference.

JessM Evading taxes is illegal. Avoiding taxes isn't. I think people are incensed, rather than enthused because not paying your fair share is – well, unfair. It is by no means the only unfairness that exists in our society but objecting to one kind of unfairness does not prevent anyone from objecting to other instances.

It is possible to legislate to minimise the amount of profit transferred by transnational companies if the government has sufficient will. International agreements about tax havens are happening slowly.

Yes well you no point in HMRC pursuing those who are avoiding legally is there. Waste of time.
It would be a very clever legislator who would come up with such a bill absent . The "declaring of profits" is, I am sure you are aware, a whole complicated subject and nothing like as simple as many people would like to make out. In fact I think that such legislation is impossible to achieve in this world of international businesses. They will always come up with a new way of managing profits and tax.