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The USA - civilised?

(14 Posts)
Greatnan Mon 03-Dec-12 14:33:07

In general, British prisons seem to be more humane but I have serious misgivings about our involvement in obtaining information by torture. The Blair administration was very cagey about 'extraordinary rendition' - it rang about as true as the sexed up dossier.
Britain certainly has nothing to be proud of in the past - the fortunes of several cities were built upon the slave trade and the treatment of children in factories during the industrial revolution was a disgrace.
I hope that Britain has become a more open and caring society, but I am not naive enough to think that much of what the government and the security services do is open to inspection.

absentgrana Mon 03-Dec-12 14:18:29

The American penal system is barbaric. I think they also put Iraqi prisoners in metal containers in direct sunshine while playing deafening music all day and all night. I have a vague feeling that I read that Barney the Dinosaur was part of this treatment.

Elegran Mon 03-Dec-12 14:02:54

Glass houses and stones?

Mishap Mon 03-Dec-12 12:52:37

A country who intervenes in other cultures because of their barbarous ways should ensure they are squeaky clean really.

vampirequeen Mon 03-Dec-12 12:00:37

The Americans are hypocrites. If this was done to a woman in another country they would be at the forefront of criticism. It's a strange country that allows such punishments to be meted out. What a surprise that no one was found to be to blame? Prostitution is a dangerous profession at the best of times without the authorities adding to the danger.

Greatnan Mon 03-Dec-12 11:13:26

Much of what went on in Guantanomo Bay was also reminiscent of the methods used in Japanese POW camps.
I am not sure that the USA was much better in the past - negroes were being lynched within my memory.

Elegran Mon 03-Dec-12 10:08:45

How can a civilised country which remembers the atrocities of Japanes prisoner-of -war camps descend to such a punishment? This reminds me of a scene in "Tenko" where a woman who broke the rules to visit her husband in the men's camp was caught and sentenced to a spell in a metal container in the sun.

I suppose that question answers itself - the generation which experienced such things is now mostly dead and gone.

They would condemn it most loudly if it were done by terrorists in Afghanistan though.

Greatnan Mon 03-Dec-12 09:54:54

I do agree that Christianity is not the only religion that shows compassion.
I believe a very large proportion of Americans give Christianity as their religion. In fact, the ultra conservative right-wing Republican lobby gained much of its support from Christians.
N.B. I am not a Christian.

YankeeGran Mon 03-Dec-12 09:52:15

Don't forget that this is a country where the Christian right condemns abortion but supports the death penalty, and sees no conflict in their views.

I had not heard about the above mentioned case, which is truly appalling and anything but civilised. . .but some of the description reminded me of cases I have heard of here with regard to the treatment of the elderly.

dorsetpennt Mon 03-Dec-12 09:48:40

Greatnan the USA doesn't consider itself a Christian country like we do. As their President is not the Head of a Church like the Queen is the Head of the Church of England. This was deliberately done during the conception of their writing of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Notwithstanding that - I hate the comment 'Christian Country' which implies that Christianity is the only religion that shows compassion etc. Christians have done some pretty awful things too. The Holocaust had many Christians in its design and implementation.
However, this incident is appalling and barbaric, not matter the crime she did not deserve this. I think a country that behaves properly towards it's prison inmates, whilst still punishing them, is a civilised country. I think the southern states in the US has a very harsh regime indeed and the most likely states to have capital punishment.

Greatnan Mon 03-Dec-12 09:25:34

The full report says she pleaded for water and the guards mocked her. She was convicted of prostitution. What a wonderful Christian country!

whenim64 Mon 03-Dec-12 09:02:51

An outside cage? What the hell was that doing there in the first place? A prison policy allowing up to two hours in the cage? I hope there is a Human Rights investigation of this inhumane treatment.

Nelliemoser Mon 03-Dec-12 08:56:42

Aboslutely disgusting! The whole American prison system appears to me to be totally inhumane and violent. I am sure British prisons are no holiday camp but they do not seem to sink to these levels.
All this stuff about the USA being the "land of the free" there are a lot of areas in which it appears to lack compassion. The land of the monied! God help the rest!

Greatnan Mon 03-Dec-12 08:35:15

Death of Marcia Powell

Marcia Powell was a 48-year-old inmate who died May 20, 2009 after exposure to 107-degree temperatures for four hours in an outside cage at Goodyear's Perryville Prison. Prison policy limits such outside confinement to a maximum of two hours.[4] An autopsy report showed that Powell had first- and second-degree burns and a core body temperature of 108 degrees. She suffered burn blisters all over her body. The county medical examiner found the cause of death to be due to complications from heat exposure.[5] According to a 3,000 page report released by the ADC, she pleaded to be taken back inside, but was ignored. She was also not allowed to use the restroom, and as a result, died in her own excrement.[6] Prison administrators fired, suspended or disciplined 16 corrections employees over Powell's death.[7] The Maricopa County Attorney's Office chose not to prosecute Arizona Department of Corrections staff in her death, claiming that there was "insufficient evidence to go forward with a prosecution against any of the named individuals".[8]