The term 'old biddies'? Is it really that offensive?

What does "we all internalise sexism" mean? Sounds like too much of a generalisation to me.

I understand Jess , it is true .

They call each other the N word , which I cannot bring myself to say , I find it ghastly.

Will never forget the first time in the States visiting an English friend , a black man was crossing the road and she said "get out of the way n--- .

Not an awful lot shocks me , but that did .

Phrases like those I quoted many contributions ago are fine when on a personal basis, my DGC call me Grannima, or between consenting adults in private but most of the time they are used to dismiss and demean older women.

I heard some man on the radio describing something as being something 'you dont take your granny to'. How can he know what all woman with grandchildren would or would not enjoy and what about the older women who are not grandmothers, are they to be dismissed with this pejorative phrase? Many older women probably would enjoy an avant garde artistic event.

'Something for your granny' is a dismissive phrase for something meretricious and of no value that can easily be palmed off on any old biddie. See what I mean?

Yes, that would be shocking, nonu, but I find the attitude that prompts such speech more shocking than the term used.

I take your point, FlicketyB, but when someone says you wouldn't take your granny to see something it's usually because the something is or could be viewed as offensive. In that case I would see it as being protective towards your granny - not demeaning her. I don't see anything wrong with that, even though I might not consider that I, personally, require such protection!

In the Xmas BMJ last year i think a geriatrician wrote about jelly babies which sterotyped old people-ie pigeon fanciers or with zimmer frames and he felt that unless older people upped their expectations of themselves and didnot accept derogatory descriptions then the problems faced -neglect or indifference in care homes and on wards would continue. I agree with them but when I mentioned it on gransnet some people thought the jelliatric babies were fun. I still feel they were wrong and the geriatrician was right(he discovered them on the bedside table of a patient and it set him thinking)

Like it or not the Americans have a totally different attitude to us !

Everyone knows grannies never had sex!

bags it means that we take on the values, attitudes or beliefs of the dominant culture.
e.g. a woman manager who is prejudiced against employing other women or judges their performance more exactingly than men. Being critical of women politicians because of their appearance. etc etc
I don't think it is a generalisation - I think it is damn near universal.

Even when one makes a conscious effort not to join in? Well, maybe, but I think, as with most things, there will be degrees of it, so some people will be more affected than others. Some will be a great deal more affected by it than others. Plus, if you have been trained to be self aware in such things, it must help, mustn't it?

I am not critical of women politicians because of their appearance, for instance, because I know it is stupid to be like that.

I know it's stupid to be like that, too, but I'm afraid I am sometimes critical of both women and men politicians because of their appearance. I am transfixed by Ed Balls' hairstyle every time I see him - and not in a good way! I'm not proud of it, but it's human nature.

If feisty older women like us do not stand-up and challenge any attitudes and terms of speech that demean us we are letting down all of those of our contemporaries who cannot stand up for themselves and are condemned, as Stans gran quoted to neglect and indifference in care homes and from carers.

I see what you're saying, flickety, but I think the people who indulged in neglect and cruelty in care homes would have been neglectful and cruel wherever they were. If someone calls me an old biddy in a way that is meant to be nasty, I am not demeaned, they are.

Agreed flicketyB.

I'm with JessM, Flickety and Stansgran on this one. One of my SILs (who I get on really well with) jokingly referred to me as some old person put down name, he got put in his place. Later my other daughter said I was a bit harsh as he was only joking. She got told too. Feisty I am.

Gran or Grannies is not derogatory, it means Grandmother. Some of the definitions for Old Biddie are: an old garrulous, gossipy, interfering old woman. Also an old, typically ugly woman who is a bitch..

Its the difference between the personal, DD will tease me about being an old bat or a granny and tell me all the things I should or should not do now that I am nearly 70, and the group; when someone refers to older women as a group as grannies, old dears etc.

What I find particularly shocking is when a term like 'granny' it is used in circumstances where the word is inapproriate anyway. I was listening to quite a formal interview on R4 about the effects of the Autumn statement on different groups in society and the interviewee in answering a question about the effects of he cuts on older people suddenly said something like 'grannies need not fear for their bus tokens' or something similar, it sounded so patronising and dismissive

Feisty makes a difference, doesn't it? If anyone calls me a feisty old biddy, I'll take it as a compliment

Feisty young biddy even better. Not insulting at all.

Ponder...

Maybe we don't like being called old anything.

My daughters are all feisty young biddies. I'm proud of that. No doubt they'll grow into feisty old biddies too, just like their mum.

Feisty young biddies is a contradiction in terms.

Language has a subtle but huge effect on how we perceive and interpret the people and things around us.

Some people may be able to rise above name calling but I believe at a general level demeaning words should be challenged.

Alternatively, people should be educated to rise above pathetic name-calling. Harder, yes, but worth the effort.

I agree about challenging what bothers you. But glorying in being called a witch or a biddy takes the wind out of their sails. Showing that it's pointless and that you are not offendable stops them in their tracks.

Should we ban insulting names for, say, black people, Jewish people, Arabs, the disabled or educate such groups to rise above it?

I don't think we need to ban names, just teach our children not to call people derogatory names. Is there anyone here that thought it was okay for their children to call someone a name because they were a different religion, female, had a disability or were a different race? It starts in the home, if you thought it was okay for your son to call a woman a slut or old bag, chances are he will think it is perfectly okay to use those terms when referring to women.

I think potential and actual offensiveness is the price we have to pay for free speech. In my view, it's a price worth paying.

There's an article in the Independent today which mentions the death of a spirited old lady, Murdoch's mother. As far as I'm concerned "feisty old biddy" = "spirited old lady", therefore I am not insulted.

Interpretation is the key. If someone says something rude and offensive to me I'm not offended; I simply think "how rude!" and move on. I am choosing not to be offended because I know I am not anything negative and nasty that anyone calls me. Self respect and education are the only way of coping. Banning certain words will only make people invent more. Has banning the word nigger reduced racism? Or is it education and greater knowledge about human 'races' that has made the difference? Education and greater knowledge about equality and fairness and justice?

Yes, there still is racism, but there is less than there was because of education, not because of censorship.