What has happened to GN just lately?

Don't you think being on GN for a long time does toughen you Marelli?

Kali What have I said that is patently unkind and to whom? Does your "well probably" mean that yes you do have an axe to grind. If so, please enlighten me. Please do not shout at me.

Yes Greatnan Almost certainly a clique if you can have one that consists of two people. I'll have to check a dictionary.

Jingle, perhaps you're right ! It's certainly made me think a lot differently about many things, and also made me think before I speak - which is something I was never much good at! At least on here I can delete something before I send it, something I could never do with my mouth! (big mouth emoticon)!

Marelli I have seen posts where some GNetters say that words can't hurt them and they can take the flak. They go on to advise others to put out of get out. Fair enough. Harsh though that may seem there is a certain logic in it. So that's why I'd describe her as a 'tough old boot'...a description I'd also apply to myself. So when she says others are 'very sensitive plants' and says she cannot understand how they can be hurt, I'm trying to point out, quite mildly I think, that other people have feelings. I think you'd allow me that point, as I've always found your posts calm and reasoned.
But it's interesting that Said Person then goes in for an attack by raising the stakes and is joined by another who mentions cliques. I think the problem arises when people do not understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Anyway I'm off out now to build a snowman. I put my opinion and I accept I may be wrong as I wish others would. But then I'm quite an introspective person.

sorry - bit late responding to Marelli there.

jingle I was not suggesting that new posters are causing trouble, merely that they may not quite 'get' GN in quite the same way that those of us who have been around longer perceive it. Maybe the influx of new posters we have seen recently will change the dynamic of GN

We have been quite cosy for a while. Not in terms of agreeing all the time but in terms of having got to know about each other. Lots of new people bring different things. I, for one, find it difficult to remember who the different 'new' people are and what other topics they have posted on. That doesn't mean they are not welcome.

Kali, Absent is not a tough old boot and I think it has been established that we are all very definitely pleased that she is back. I could see nothing wrong with her post.

Happy snowman building Kali!

Kali - do you not recognise a light-hearted comment when one is made?
It was obvious from comments made when absent was absent that very many people enjoy her posts and are very glad to see her back. I certainly was - no, not because we are a clique. What the hell is a clique anyway?
I am quite sure that there is a little group of people who dislike me and constantly pick faults with me. Perhaps they sometimes send each other pms - I neither know nor care. Somebody 'warned' Cheelu about cliques - why don't they come out of the woodwork and say who they mean?

Marelli by using the phrase 'very sensitive flowers* there is an implied judgement that their feelings are too easily hurt. I think that was a tad unkind or thoughtless. A new poster reading that could very easily take offence. Notice please I criticised the post not the poster. I'm sure Absent was not hurt by being called a tough old boot. I am a tough old boot and actually take it as a fair description. Now I really am off the snow beckons.
PS anyway wasn't this what some posters were complaining about? The lack of cut and thrust on GN when Absent and Greatnan were AWOL? I should think I've made these posters very happy by locking horns

Well, Kali, thank you for making it clear to us that the OP was referring specifically to absent and myself. Did Ceesnan give you permission to interpret her post. How very kind.

Kali I regard tough old boot as an insult and I do not like being referred to as Said Person. I have not "raised stakes". What are we supposed to be betting on, even metaphorically? I assume that you are not attributing words concerning "taking the flak" to me as you would have a hard time actually quoting them. You have still not explained how you think I have been unkind and to whom I have been unkind with these posts. You also do not explain why my comment that I have not been unkind is opinion whereas your that I have been unkind is fact.

What is going on?

Ceesnan Yes – definitely changed. I'm beginning to wonder whether coming back was such a good idea after all. [rueful smile emoticon]

The issue is that it's unacceptable to make personal remarks whereas it's OK to criticise (analytically) the content of a post. Kali, it's fine for absent to refer to herself - if she so wishes - as a 'tough old boot'. I don't think you really meant it as a personal slur, but surely you must admit, when you think about it, it was a tad tactless.

oh deear!! I am still finding my way around, there are a lot of people on here and I try to keep up.

However it does seem a shame if older members do not wish to include "new blood" as it were.

Maybe I have mis interpreted that but Kittylester saying maybe new member do not "get gransnet" does seem to be dare I say it a little bit of a strange remark?

sorry no offence intended especially when you must be so sad after losing your pet - just surely there not anything to "get" that is saying that people are not free to post ad lib but have to follow older members??!!!

I really do not think Absent meant any offence by her remark, it is true some people are more sensitive than others and of course we are all capable of being hurt we are not made of steel are we?/
Where is Cheelu do hope she has not left.

Nothing changes here. I remember posting early last year (or it may have been the year before) that I thought that certain threads on GN were descending into the realms of bitchy playground behaviour. I also had a PM from a gransnetter (why me I have no idea as I did not think we had become "connected" through our posts in any way) drooling on about how unkind one particular person had been to her. I thhink she just wanted a sounding board. She appears to have given back as good as she previously got in the meantime. I am fed up with this. I know I don't post very often and when I do, I do not court controversy (which is why I am largely ignored). I belong to other forums which are more constructive and more interesting, so I think it's time I spent more time with them. Some of the threads on GN are so long, it's getting almost impossible to follow them properly anyway unless you spend twenty four hours on the b****y computer!

Yes Ceesnan the atmosphere has changed but it has only gone back to as it was before it became so nice and friendly just before Christmas. It may be difficult for Greatnan and Absent to understand your point as they were both away for most of that time.

Kitty I too read your post as if you meant that new GNs should adapt to the way of the old GN. I do hope that is not what you meant. IMO everyone is as important as everyone else on GN, whether they have been members for a week or from the beginning. I have noticed that cheelu is not posting as much as she did and I think it is a great shame that she has been put off in the last couple of weeks.

IMO if people would stop reinterpreting other people's posts it would be helpful. Saying that someone has said something does not make it so and hurts the person whose post has been misinterpretted/misquoted. I hope this is never done spitefully but it is hard to accept that this has not been done to me on occassions.

movedealot I agree whole heartedly with what you have said.

Saying that someone has said something does not make it so and hurts the person whose post has been misinterpreted/misquoted. Movedalot, how very true.

Well, it seems to me that the response to this thread has just proved the point I was making! Thanks everyone

Well said Movedalot. Having had my posts twisted in the last day on another thread has been quite irritating. I do wonder is it done to be malicious or is it just ignorance.

I think people have to speak for themselves celebgran and not generalise, as there are so many different opinions about how Gransnet operates.

My experience of Gransnet is that new members are welcome, and it's lovely to see names from the past reappear to tell us how they are these days. I choose to stick with Gransnet, but will ease off contributing when people start making remarks that are hurting others, as I don't want any part in it. If things get a bit boring, we can introduce another thread. There are endless subjects to debate or chat about, and many different slants on them.

I guess it depends on how we look at life. I've got a half full glass and like to take an optimistic view. I appreciate that might irritate some people, but I accept them for who they are, so would appreciate it being reciprocated

Group dynamics. Most groups go through a "storming" phase early in their life. Then things settle down. But if there is an influx of new members then often "storming" crops up again. Every month or two there is a stormy patch on GN and then things settle down again. It is to be expected that if new members significantly change the 'group norms' then established members will feel unsettled.
It is also the case that there are sometimes personality clashes, as in life outside GN. But these are not major.
GN is much bigger than it was a year ago and it is no longer possible to participate in all threads or to interact with all the other members. If there is someone you just don't want to interact with, then it should be perfectly possible to find some threads where they do not appear. This is one of the advantages of a bigger membership I think.
For me the only thing that has irritated me during my membership is if people who prefer cosy threads seek to disrupt threads where a serious discussion is going on. There should be room for both. And lots in between.

I was thinking of that, too, Jess. Forming, storming, norming, performing....and mourning, when things go wrong, or Grasnetters leave

I think another thing to take into consideration is that this way of communicating (including email) will always have the problem of not actually having a voice or a face. Both factors can impact a lot on the way things are put across and of course received.

Even though there is a range of emoticons to use, the meaning of some statements may not be exactly as they were intended.

Does that make sense, or have I lost it again?

(Also apologies for perhaps "stating the bleedin' obvious", as the saying goes.)