Confirmed Richard 3rd remains found

The petition to return him to Yorkshire is doing quite well.

Thought the programme wasn't as bad as some of Channel 4's efforts but I was longing for more of the science. I presume more will come out over the next few months. I would like to see a whole body reconstruction so that we could see the affect of the scoliosis and whether it was likely to impede him much. I would like to see him go back to York, but it may be a lost cause.

Sorry I missed the programme but I still think there's no sense in leaving him in Leicester. It's normal to 'repatriate' those fallen in battle and bring them home to their family. I wonder if the 'relative', whoever they are, whose DNA they used has any say in the matter of where he is laid to rest?

Bags yes, my teeth are just on edge thinking about it

About the scoliosis - I think bone lady said that the curvature was lateral, so that he wouldn't have had a sticking-out hunch, but his right shoulder would have been higher than his left ?? not sure about that. Galen are you there?

Sorry, bad sentence. Comprehensible, I hope!

Don't know but that is what they said on the news.

jane, I heard somewhere that one of the suggested reasons for very worn teeth is that flour (which may not have been wheat; barley perhaps, or rye) would have been stone ground and very tiny bits of grit, too small to be detectable in the bread, but gritty enough to damage tooth enamel, rather than food fibre.

Whoops again. Stayed at Middleham till he was 12. That'll teach me to check the facts before I post. Thank you Wikipedia.

Whoops. Born in Northamptonshire.

Shakespeare had a 'Brummie' ie Warwickshire accent. Richard was sent to Middleham Castle at 12 and all over the place before then. I believe he was born in France. Why would he have a Brummie accent?

I don't know how he managed to fight in as many battles as he did, since being in his teens, with that appalling degree of scoliosis.

Just finished reading The Kingmaker's Daughter, the 4th in Philippa Gregory's novels about the Plantagenets. I've really enjoyed in particular the first two, The White Queen and The Red Queen. All the books tell the story of the Wars of the Roses from different viewpoints and you see all the characters in different lights. It gives a much more rounded and sympathetic picture of Richard III. Think it's all fascinating.

Apparently he spoke with a Brummie accent.

I heard it was archeological practice generally to bury "assumed christian" remains in the nearest consecrated ground to where they were found. They have to jump through quite a few proceedures to exhumate even ancient remains.

learner when you say the skeleton lifted do you mean excavated or carried in the box to the van. Haveing seen the excavations in September there was only room for one person in that trench. She kept on handing up finger bones to be put in separate bags.

I have a close up picture of the actual trench with its markers. I will post up on my profile. If I can remember how.

Very interesting, thanks. I wish there had been more - much more - knowlegeable, factual, discussion of what was found. There must be so many experts they could have called on to interpret for us what information could have so far been gleaned. I just hope that it is not too late and that there will be further studies and further programmes/books.....

Learner
Facial reconstruction isn't a load of tosh. Anatomists know very accurately where on the bones the muscles will have been attached and although it is the bones which give structure to the face, it is the muscle which gives the face its padding. It may have been the historian who said that Richard's diet would have been higher in protein than the diet of the common people, so they could have made an educated estimate of the mass of muscle tissue.
I'm glad it wasn't just me who didn't like the displays of emotion.
I thought the science was fascinating. The teeth interested me of course - Richard was only 32 when he died, but if you look at the teeth you will see that they are worn to a very flat edge - the sort of wear that nowadays you would expect to see in a 70 year-old who had spent a lot of time clenching and grinding! Presumably this is due to a much higher fibre content in the 15th century diet.
The other bit I thought was fascinating was that the osteologist (bone lady) said that several of Richard's bones (pelvic bone and I think tibia) were feminine in shape and apparently there were comtemporary accounts of him being very brave in battle, despite having a feminine physique.

As far as I know, which isn't really very much, it is possible to position "muscle fibres" fairly accurately. Then the face is fleshed out. In the case of Richard III, there are contemporary portrait(s), I think so there would a guide to nose shape and complexion, for example.

I can only think that Channel 4 had such a high financial stake in the dig that nobody could prevent what they were up to. I have seldom never seen such a waste of a golden opportunity and cannot believe they were permitted to do it. Was it really the case that the skeleton was lifted in that cavalier fashion by that one woman? And not only that, but instead of filming this extraordinarily interesting and important event, the cameraman treated us to the sight of the effect it was having on Philippa Langley (no disrespect to her - it would not have been happening at all if not for her after all).
But worst of all, am I imagining that the bones-woman (sorry I missed her name) casually mentioned that the large hole on top of the skull had just been caused by HER, "ten minutes ago"??????? Please someone tell me I am imagining this. It was never even referred to again.
Also think the face reconstruction is a largely a load of old tosh. Do we have a GNer who knows about these things?

Lilygran & NfkDumpling I was also disappointed with the presentation. There was far to much emotion and not enough background information etc.

Just bee looking at the reconstruction of his face, he seems to have been given a very pimply and not very good complexion I'm wondering why?

I was very disappointed .

i missed it but it doesn't look as if I missed much!

Agree, that program could easily have fitted into half an hour. No depth at all. It was a missed opportunity to have said so much more about the man himself and the politics of the Tudor take over. And the family tree and genetics.

Most disappointing.

You're right, trishs. He should be back in Yorkshire, but I don't think it will happen. Did anyone else watch the programme last night? An hour and a half of trivialisation. Hardly any history, a small amount of science passed over as quickly as possible, absence of archaeology and lots of emotion. A big disappointment.

It would seem a shame to move him trishs and the highly esteemed elected mayor of Leicester has great plans. Hasn't it been announced that he will be buried in the nearest consecrated ground to where he was found?

Actually, I suspect there might be another war if anyone tried to move him from Leicester.