If Radio 1 do play that wretched song.....

I think those who decry teachers need to spend more time in schools. Those of us who do spend time in schools see on the whole dedicated, well-trained people with whom we are happy to trust our children.

And I feel very sorry for those children who find themselves with teachers who have 'gone into it' because they couldn't follow their preferred paths.

I think it unlikely these people will provide the passion and enthusiasm which is needed to be a successful teacher. But of course, if all that motivates them is pay and a misguided perception about holidays, it's unlikely that they will last very long.

Sel, you say that finding any value in the song equates with delivering a tolerant and balanced view of the world.

Surely you not suggesting that anyone's personal opinions, however much you may disagree with them, disqualifies them from being a teacher?

Perhaps you would like to suggest how the opinions of prospective and serving teachers could be ascertained, and who would decide which of those opinions make them unfit to teach.

The thing is, when a little worm moved across the bottom of my TV screen saying 'Margaret Thatcher has died', without even thinking about it, the words left my lips 'Ding dong the witch is dead'. My DH immediately knew who I meant.

I'm horrified that she is receiving a funeral that is a state funeral in all but name: this is an insult to all those millions of lives she ruined.

I believe that when a person has done so much harm, the feelings of her family are irrelevant. After all, they must have lived the last 34 years with the anti-Thatcher vitriol being directed at her and her policies. They must have seen reports of destroyed industries, mass unemployment, dying towns and villages, homeless people sleeping rough and all the rest of the misery her policies caused. Her death has changed nothing - it is all too late.

I am in favour of the 'turning of backs' as a protest against her destructive legacy. People lining the route of the funeral procession and then turning their backs as it passes, is a fitting protest. it is dignified, quiet and eloquent. I would not have attended a death party, though my DH said he would have.

Meanwhile, in parliament, Glenda Jackson said it all:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8
Loved the speaker's comments at the end too.

Excellent summary eloethan

Flippin heck! This reminds me of jury service

I've just looked at the last couple of pages of this thread and am astonished how those in favour of the sentiments expressed by the OP have endeavoured to portray themselves as the victims of people who "can dish it out but can't take it back".

nanaej's first post on this particular issue did not make aggressive or sneering comments to other gransnetters but merely expressed her view.

j08, in response, makes a sarcastic remark and ends her post
" #Godhelpthekids ".

j08 implies, that nanaej as "cruel and unkind".

Celebran says "thank goodness you [nanaej] retired. Children needs role models, not yob culture."

nanaej once more puts her point of view, quite calmly and without resorting to personal insults.

celebran implies that nanaej has behaved unprofessionally ("politics has no place in teaching*) and then goes on to make a sneering remark.

POGS then steps in to say "I am fed up with continual bish bash when posters dish it out but can't take it back". As the above posts demonstrate, some posters can't be bothered to present a reasoned argument; it is they that "dish it out", i.e. resort to personal attacks.

Dresden then goes on to talk about "common decency", inferring that those with whom she disagrees have none.

Celebran Talks about "a few on here just looking for trouble". Why is it "looking for trouble" when people disagree with a post. When posters start a thread, are they starting a debate or do they only want people that agree with the thread to makes comments?

POGS talks about people being "morally bankrupt" and then continues to denigrate the teaching profession.

I feel it isn't right to put threads on Gransnet if you do not wish people who disagree with your point of view to make any comments. And just hurling insults at people - whether about their individual morality or their professionalism - isn't really having a debate.

celeb 'you certainly have good opinion of yourself nanaej I will leave you to carry on thinking how great you are!'

I don't know why you chose to get personal. I was merely pointing out and illustrating that I was not a yob. I am a person who believes in living her politics. For me that meant striving to make sure all the children in my school had the best possible education so they had the power to make choices in their future lives. We never discussed party politics with children & I have not come across any teacher who did. We taught, and teachers demonstrated, good moral values of respect, courtesy, honesty and good citizenship. We taught about democracy and the right to express opinions and the right to be heard along with responsibility to participate as a citizen, for example by voting. I am sorry you feel I think I am great ..I don't... I am just an ordinary hard working person and now I enjoy semi-retirement.

I do not agree with a lot of the opinions you express and you do not agree with mine. That is the way of the world and in a healthy democracy we should be able to express them without fear or personal attack.

MiceElf debate, discussion and protest by all means. I wouldn't class the campaign involving this song as bad taste, it's just plain cruel. I would have exactly the same feelings if the same treatment was handed out to Tony Blair's family in the event of his death. It is nothing to do with politics and everything to do with compassion for other human beings. I can understand it children downloading it, they know no better obviously.

Yes I agree. [aaarg, pull my hair out emoticon]

Tegan I am talking about my own experience, all any of us can do surely?

POGS I am at a loss trying to understand what you mean. We live in a world where great evils take place every day; murder, rape, FGM; many hunger and want for shelter, medicine and freedom.

And you assert that because emotions have run high about a woman who delighted in divisiveness that this country has lost its moral compass.

It seems to me that it is wholly positive that people are snapping out if their apathy about politics, and engaging with he issues.

You don't have to agree, but I think it regretable that debate, discussion and, yes, protest, however bad the taste and juvenile it may be, is seen as unacceptable.

Sory Sel; I forgot that, even though quite a few of the members of my family are teachers you know more about the profession than I do. Silly me .

Sadly Tegan I think the days of teaching being a vocation are long gone. Several of my childrens' friends have gone into teaching after Uni because they couldn't get jobs in the areas they wanted. Conditions and pay are attractive, not to mention the holidays.

By implication MiceElf: finding any form of value in this song.

Mice

It was an attempt at sarcasm but I am not very good at it at times. I am learning though.

I am really concerned that this country is morally bankrupt and as small as this thread is in the scheme of things it shouts volumes of that fact.

I truly am ashamed that my GC is growing up in an age where such vitriolic attitudes are being displayed. I once thought such thoughts and deeds belonged to the parties of the extreme left/right. To think that people who I could have at one time admired are not what I thought they were saddens me. I reiterate the moral compass has been seen to be broken this week by christian and non christian alike.

Oh, now it's getting pathetic.

That's why teaching is vocational. People who teach are compassionate and tolerant; people who aren't follow other career paths...and make money...

I quite agree, Sel. Would you like to point out where anyone has indicated on this thread or elsewhere that they are not doing just that?

One can only hope that such strident political attitudes don't impinge on educating children. They should be granted a tolerant, compassionate and balanced view of the world and if the teachers who are paid from our taxes can't deliver that, they should leave the profession and enter politics.

I'm pleased to hear that POGS. If you reread this thread you will find disagreement about the issues, sometimes forcibly expressed. And you will also find some personal animosity, ( one of which was deleted by GNHQ) . In this discussion, feelings will run high. But personal attack is always inappropriate.

What?! Clarity please.

I thought you said this thread was not about censorship. Consistency please.

Mice

As a christian, I am embarrassed by those who call themselves christian who exhibit such personal anymosity to those they disagree with.

I couldn't agree more with your words.

And it's got nothing to do with the "silly song" itself.

#givesup