shocked!!!!

READ MY NEW THREAD RE THIS ENTITLED - I TAKE IT ALL BACK.

Ella

I'm always surprised when they actually sit there. I don't like the naughty step. DD uses it.

I for one would not have sat on a 'naughty step' I was rather a handfull for my mother according to family legend. I also have one daughter who would not have stayed on a naughty step either and now she, too, has one daughter who I'm sure wouldn't but my DD2 is sensible enough not to introduce it. With those kind of genes, threatening works better because then they have the choice to behave well or badly.

I BELLOWED at my dgds once when they (13 & 10) were very giddy and I couldn't hear myself think. Then we all burst out laughing in the following silence!

We had a silly game thing where I would put mine over my knee and put one hand on their bum and then smack my own hand, it was fun and not done when they had done something wrong. I did it once to one of their friends who cried desperately even though they had seen me doing it to my own. I could only assume that they were smacked hard at home. I never did it to anyone else's child again.

Oh it certainly is Jo8. I remember putting my 9 year old across my knee when he had been exceptionally rude to me. I raised my hand but it just would not make contact. A bit like a gunslinger being unable to shoot. After three attempts I gave up and left the room!

latest bit of useless information I mean research

Don't wish that! It's interesting.

The child who bullied my son from the age of 4.1/2 was in turn bullied by his brothers and smacked loudly at the school gates by his bullish mother. He certainly learned his aggressive behaviour from his family.

Thin you are right inthefields: Never the twain shall meet. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggggggh!!!!!!! wish I had never started the whole thread.

SHOUTS LOUDLY:..................IT WASN'T JUST SHOUTING IT WAS BELLOWING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [grins manically emotiocon]

Isn't it interesting that Gransnet so perfectly reflects the national division of opinion on this sensitive subject - that those who do smack blame the ills of the generation on those who have not, those who do not believe in smacking see it as abuse, whilst those who sit on the fence and find the occasional tap acceptable ....are bewildered by both attitudes.

I am bowing out of this one, as I do think it is a case of never the twain shall meet ........ and the fencepost is becoming a tad uncomfortable

I have to admit, I have never ever smacked my children and so would obviously never consider smacking my grandchildren. I do not believe any form of violence helps matters. I used distraction and any other non physical means of dealing with any problems we might have. I find it upsetting when I hear parents, shouting, swearing and smacking their children. I think it is no wonder we have such bullies at school because I think violence breeds violence. I don't like children being threatened with it either, why would you want to scare your kids like that, I think it is about control quite often and surely you should be able to deal with your children without resorting to physical means. My DD uses "Supernannys" naughty step, where you give a warning and say you will count to three and if they do not stop the relevant behaviour, they will go on the naughty step, chair or whatever, for 1 miute of each year of their life. DD has rarely got past two.

I used to threaten my kids with the wooden spoon. I never used it of course but the drawer where it was kept used to squeak so that would stop them in their tracks. 'Who wants the wooden spoon?' became a catch phrase in our house.

I've always threatened my grandsons with turning 'em up and smacking their backsides. It works. (Couldn't actually do it now but they haven't twigged that)

Thrashing is the translation of what I said in German, probably a milder word like smacking would be better. Of course I have never thrashed anybody - and they knew it! I never hit them at all but I remember I put on a grim face and they got a bit of a thrill like watching today's videos.
When they were good again we forgot it.

Now they laugh about it BUT it worked. They controlled themselves. I helped them to learn to control themselves. Its called selfdiscipline.

Two boisterous boys of 4 and 2 can drive any mother to shouting.

Surely it is all about children learning the way things work in their own family, and where the boundaries lie for them. Providing they grow up feeling safe, happy and secure ....learning to be reasonable adults ....does it matter if one shouts or does not shout?

I have known really "healthy" families who were quiet, non-shouters ....and really noisey, shoutey, rumbustious families who were equally "healthy".
No-one shouted in my childhood home - but I lived most of it in fear.
My ex did not shout but could devastate me with a single sentence.

Shouting does not equate to unsafe, threatening or verbal abuse IF the children are secure in the knowledge that they are safe, un-threatened and not abused.

As a parent, I ran one of the noisier varieties of home ....lots of debates around the kitchen table, three conversations going on at once while cooking the dinner, children & friends always at the bottom of the garden when it was ready, dogs barking (or chasing the ducks) ......yes, I shouted!! As I've said before, my girls knew if I was cross because I would become very quiet (and use something they termed "the Paddington Stare"). A child from a non-shouting home would probably feel very threatened by yells. Mine knew that escalating voice meant nothing more than a mum getting seriously impatient.

It is strokes for folks. As long as the children are happy, secure, loved & safe AND THEY KNOW IT, then IMHO its each to is own.

I very ,very rarely shouted at my family when they growing up .

I would not dream of shouting at any of my GC , in all honesty they are just such good children , don"t need shouting at .

Mind, I am not a pushover , I speak firmly when needed .

Still I cannot ever remember my Parents shouting at me !

I do not think it is harmful to shout occasionally - children need to understand that sometimes they can push people too far - it is a valuable lesson I think and helps them to understand that they too are only human and these things are bound to happen.

Constant yelling is clearly not acceptable - it just becomes background noise and achieves nothing for anyone.

Nanej - I think children need to learn where the boundaries are, and your DGC discovered where yours lies . It was not reached with the first incidence of stroppiness, because you understood that DGC was dealing with some issues, but did have its limit when the behaviours continued.

That's sounds not just OK, but perfectly fair, in my book.
Boundaries are good for kids

Margaret please don't encourage anyone to use the tactic of threatening a 'thrashing' along with a progression of drawn lines on paper, counting up to five, when the threat would be carried out. I shudder at the thought of any child wondering about such a threat, and feeling so intimidated by it. It's abusive.

As a teacher I have had to learn the art of expressing disapproval and even sounding angrey without losing my temper. Once you lose your emper you lose control, is what I was taught. Of ocurse it is harder with your own children because you care more about them and love them. I have a vivid memory of "losing it" with DDS when in her teens and shouting at her. She paused, and said calmly "Mum, have you any idea how ridiculous you sound?" A lesson I have never forgotten.

Fof I understand what you are saying about the bellowing being much worse than simply shouting and I share your concern. I doubt if you would have brought the subject up unless it was something completely out of the ordinary.

I don't live near my GSs so don't see them on a daily basis but there have been a couple of things I have felt able to mention to my DS. One was that GS said 'Daddy gets angry with me' so I told my son and could see it affected him. I took the opportunity to mention that 'getting angry' should be saved for really dangerous things. On another occassion he emailed that GS had been naughty so I reminded him that what GS had done was naughty and that he was not. I wouldn't dream of commenting on any of these things to DiL.

When we do go and see them I try to show by my own example the way I prefer to deal with things which can be difficult. When he had a minor tantrum I used distraction which worked. They don't seem to insist on please and thank you but I hope that by seeing Mr Moved and me insisting on it they will start. I am always consistent and hope that they will pick up on that. I feel that is all I can do and that I shouldn't interfere although of course I am tempted. I don't know what else you can do without alienating your DiL and possibly you DS.

I do hope that it doesn't happen again.

I 'lost it' with my DGD1 yesterday. She was upset as i picked her up from school. Her mum was not well and I think she was a bit worried but continued to strop and whinge about anything and everything. After an hour I just yelled and made her sit on the floor away from me and her sister. After a few minutes she apologised, we had a cuddle and all went to play cricket in the garden!

Q: Should I have yelled and got v. cross at the fist sign of stroppy behaviour??????

Sometimes, as with touching a socket again and again despite being removed from the scene of the crime and told that it is dangerous, a light slap will reinforce the notion that the behaviour is most definitely not to be repeated. One of my cousins, as a small child, was fascinated by electric power points, and once poked a knitting needle into one despite being warned off repeatedly.

OK, now you can get plastic inserts to close off the holes, but at some point they have to take the lesson firmly to heart that certain things are not acceptable behaviour. The sooner the better.