Mourning period - out of fashion to mark it

bags thanks for the .

I agree re the readiness to take offence nowadays where none is intended ...

Right on Bags!

grannyknot Glad you could get the help you needed when you needed it.

Sometimes the use of direct language can be helpful, but of course you have to gauge where the person is that you're talking to (face to face).

When my mother was dying, my older sister must have realised that I was in denial about the closeness of her death and my sister took me off to the local hospice, where I couldn't even sit in the chair to hear the message from the hospice worker, I was pacing around the room. So she said to me (gently - in my memory now - and possibly using other words) "Until you can sit down in the chair and hear what I am going to say to you now, I can't help you". It worked, I think I went for a walk and came back and sat down and heard what I needed to hear. So painful but I had to face facts so I could really be there for my mom.

I suppose what I'm doing here is saying that if other people want to use other expressions that mean died, that's fine, but I don't expect to be told I'm insensitive because I use the word died where someone else might use passed away or some other term. Tolerance works both ways after all and if those of us who prefer died have to accept other people's terms, I think other people can be expected to accept our terms without assuming there is any offence intended.

I guess I'm on a bit of a hobby horse. I do get tired of a certain readiness to take offence that seems to prevail in our society nowadays. Perhaps it always did?

That sounds like a good idea face to face, kitty, using the expression the bereaved person uses, but there may be something in using 'died' to bring on acceptance as it were. I'm talking through my hat here, but I'm just wondering if the idea on your course was to encourage the kind of acceptance, as opposed to denial, that would help the bereaved person get on with the business of grieving?

I also think you can use the word 'died' in a kindly and sensitive tone of voice, which would essentially have the same effect as a euphemism, wouldn't it? I mean, face to face, your intention to be sympathetic would be obvious whatever expression you used.

I went on a course about supporting the relatives of murder victims and we were told to only say 'die, dead, died' etc. I thought that was highly insensitive to the relatives so soon after a death. We were told it was to help them to come to terms with it but, imho, I feel one should reflect the language used by the person who suffered the 'loss'.

galen .

I don't think my saying my father died twenty years ago is any less "sensitive" than saying he passed away twenty years ago. Direct speech is not automatically insensitive and I think it's a shame that so many people seem to think it is. It's almost as if they don't like reality. Having been well taught in the use of the English language, I favour using fewer words where fewer words will do to mean exactly the same thing. There is nothing blunt or insensitive about the verb to die. It's no more "insensitive" than the verb to be born. When I say someone has died or is dead all I wish to convey is information about their state of being. This does not mean I am insensitive. Perhaps it does mean that I wish to keep my emotions 'contained'. I'm not sure. There is a tendency in the "meeja" for excessive public outpourings of emotion. Perhaps that's what it's about.

Please read the above as you would an essay. It's not a criticism of anyone. I'm just puzzling over why there seems to be a tendency lately to make straightforward speech euphemistic – why anyone thinks it's preferable.

I feel lost sounds careless

joan that is so sad to think that people in your immediate neighbourhood, or even your actual neighbour, die(s) and you only find out about it 'in due course'.

My neighbour across the road died recently and all of us (her neighbours) discussed whether to club in for flowers (that was what they wanted - also unusual these days), who was going to the funeral, arranged lifts etc and I think her 2 adult sons really appreciated seeing people from the road she lived in, out in force at her funeral. As it happened, she didn't have a very big funeral so it was noticeable. Afterwards all the flowers were brought back to her house and we helped distribute them to the local care home and other places.

We went to my cousin's husband's funeral in Ireland about 5 years ago, and I was struck by how the whole town just about stopped, waited respectfully for the hearse to pass, and some people even fell in behind the family who were walking behind the hearse. It was very moving.

I enjoyed reading about the ways in which different cultures mourn on Wikipedia last night, it was interesting, took me off to other websites as well.

Bags, I guess it's part of the general trend towards using euphemisims, or words that are less insensitive, which is understandable e.g. when we no longer say someone is 'mad' or a 'nutter' ... but I'm all for using plain good old English words where the meaning is clear.

Talking about the word mad - I've got a friend who checks herself/her feelings against the following four words: mad, sad, glad, or bad (when she expresses them).

Or passed away. I prefer die too. It's interesting that the word derived from Old Norse is the one that is plain speak and many people are choosing the less direct Latin/French derived expression. I wonder why there is this tendency to use less direct words?

When I was an au pair in Vienna in the mid 1960s I went for an interview for a new placement, and the mother of the family wore 'half mourning' part grey and part black, as her late Mum had been dead 6 months. After one year she went into normal colours. I wonder if they still observe this?

In Yorkshire of my youth, the curtains were drawn at the house where someone died, then a local woman came to lay them out. I'm not sure how anyone got landed with that social duty.

When the body got moved by the undertaker for the funeral, if you were out on the street you had to stop walking and face the road till it passed. Men doffed their caps.

People consoled the bereaved and were rarely embarrassed to approach them like many are now.

These days here in Australia a neighbour can die and you never know for ages. My next-door-but-one neighbour died and I found out weeks later. Few people, except plain speakers like me, say 'died' these days, it is 'passed' or 'passed on'.

to buy! and always!

fingers not awake yet, obviously!

ehm???

when

Only male Roman citizens (so not women and not the slaves or servants) wore the toga so the custom didn't apply to everyone. Ditto here ehrn mourning clothes became common place, which I had laways understood (could be wrong) to be during Victorian times: only the relatively well off could afford to but new stuff for mourning. Ordinary people just had to wear what they had already, as they did for everything. If you've only got one "best", you tend to keep it for Sundays, weddings and funerals.

(Relatively is the significant word.)

Wikipedia is interesting on the custom of mourning... once again thanks to GNetters making me think, I am learning something new

"The custom of wearing unadorned black clothing for mourning dates back at least to the Roman Empire, when the toga pulla, made of dark-colored wool, was worn during periods of mourning".

I wear black to funerals (habit) but not after. The day after dh's funeral I think I wore a flowered dress.

Grannyknot I make a point of wearing an article of clothing to reflect the passing of someone dear to me. I do it out of repect and rememberance for the departed and have no problem in others knowing that I consider myself to have sufferred a loss. I do believe however that the days of mourning are being lost to all but immediate family.
As an aside may I add that I find the thrillers on BBC4 by Arne Dahl far superior to any other productions on TV whether they be crime or political thrillers. Unmissable in my book and the highlight of my Saturday nights.

I have letters with black borders obviously treasured by my grandmother announcing family deaths. In a way they were right to acknowledge grief as a real thing. Now we push it under the carpet or medicalise it.

bags I understand that people can do their mourning without making a show of it, and clearly many do. I also realise that there are many different cultural traditions. I'm a real believer in live and let live.

The point I was making was that I understood for the first time (believe it or not) why someone might want to signal to the world that they are in mourning, as opposed to wearing black to reflect their own sorrow. There is nothing stopping people doing the Victorian thing (is that where it stems from?) but for some reason, you don't see much of that around nowadays.

Don't think I'd bother.

You'd lighten it first with a product sold by Dylon and then use one of their dyes. Unless the garment was synthetic - then the best course would be to buy a new one.

I remember years ago seeing some dresses in Worthing Museum. They were the trousseau for a victorian vicar's wife and were all dark grey or purple - the only colours he thought were suitable for her station! Heaven knows what she would have been expected to wear as mourning, black would hardly seem sufficient!

I did go to a wonderful funeral back in the 80's. The lady, who had sadly died very young, wanted everyone to wear their brightest clothes and I remember her husband wore the purple trousers and red velvet jacket that were her favourites.

Galen Mon 06-May-13 15:50:31
How would you dye black to purple?

I'm not sure, perhaps they had a couple of black outfits and a couple of purple ones. I daresay there would have been a bit of lending and borrowing amongst the family.

I seem to be aware of funerals much more these days three so far this year and I seem to have an all purpose uniform for t hem. Few people can buy clothes especially for a funeral these days but I do remember as a teenager trying to buy a red jumper after my father died to cheer myself up and just couldn't bring myself to wear it .i do remember a shop full of black hats on the rue de Rivoli in Paris specifically for mourning- this was in the sixties.