Are our views always entrenched?

Of course I didn't Anna. Don't worry about me - maybe it is because their views are entrenched? But thanks and thanks to all who have sent me pms but just were too worried about posting openly.

I don't believe for one minute that granjura was being serious about sending families out to sea, gracesmum. Why is everyone giving her such a hard time?

Conclusion, yes, people from the very left and the very right do have entrenched views. Some but perhaps few are trying to look beyond the divisive left and right- and try to find ways to go forwards, irrespective f entrenched politics. Because at the end of the day (I know - annoying expression) - that is the only way to go. The UK will either work together and attempt to close the huge divide - or sink. I am full of hope, as I have grand-children growing up there, so it matters hugely to me. Bonne chance UK.

Which makes me think that all of what could be said, has been said.

granjura

Maybe families living in bedsits could be put on boats at sea, like those private prisons - and join you lot

ah!! Just seen the double entendre, Gracesmum Not intended, I assure you. These crabs are crustaceans, though only metaphorical ones. Wondered why you were blushing over rowing.

Well I bailed out ages ago!

Rowing term, Gracesmum for when the oar does not dip deep enough into the water and does not do any work, just makes a lot of splashing, and quite often the rower then falls over backwards off the seat because they are pulling against no resistance. I suppose it is catching a crab because all the splashing is like a crab escaping and flailing around as it hits the water - who knows?

Crabs???

Bon voyage, Elegran and Bags and anyone else who managed to scramble aboard. I baled out some time ago. See you when you reach safe haven!

Welcome aboard! I take it you don't mind taking an oar? This lifeboat is heavy laden and we need to get under way soon, before the storms return.

Butty Stop giggling and get behind that oar. Now all row together .. in ....out.....KEEP TOGETHER AND STOP CATCHING CRABS.

Elegran and B - You've both given me a fit of the giggles.

Nicely secured around my middle, thanks, elegran. Haul away!

OR families ?

Don't drop it.

There is a long line attached, so you can be hauled back to the lifeboat if you drift too far. The whistle is good and loud, blow it if you need a helicopter rescue.

Chuck a lifebelt over here, would you, elegran.

Thanks so much!

Moved, no idea what was in your post and why it was deleted. I've been out having supper with friends and was hoping to find a reply to my question, which was is it better to build/renovate flats in towns as wisely proposed, for older and younger people, and for families. But sadly nobody has replied.

Second homes are privately owned and paid for by the buyer, and therefore has nothing to do with this equation. What someone is alluding to, I think, is that we have a small flat in the UK, for when we come and visit friends, grandchildren and family, and in case we ever get too old to live out in the sticks in the old house here- and that is, I am afraid nobody's business. Tax payers are not asked to contribute, are they? I totally refuse to feel embarrassed or ashamed about this, really.

We do not live in Switzerland because it is a tax haven for certain expats - only very rich ones get a tax deal, and certainly not in our County- which is one of the highest tax area in CH, because 50% of the population has some kind of benefit or other due to low wages. A huge difference I think to coming to live here to be near my parents and look after them, in my birthplace - to intentionally moving to a tax haven for the very purpose of not paying tax in UK. Or is it just me who thinks there is a big difference. Certainly no Champagne parties here, I can assure you- but plenty of community use of our old Vicarage by all, young and old. Wonderful.

Lifebelts for all, Greatnan, unless passengers push one another into the shark-infested water while fighting to be the first to grab one.

Is there room in the lifeboat for me - I can't stand any more either.

I started this thread hoping for a genuine debate,as I have had about religion, but it was hijacked for personal reasons.

Don't worry, elegran, the thread has moved on. I expect lily and I will politely agree to differ, as usual

I think there is an important difference between saying an idea is silly and saying a person is silly. It's quite possible for an intelligent person to entertain silly ideas. I know I have at times, and I've been glad to be better informed. There's a skill in saying an idea is silly without upsetting someone, of course, but it can be done. (Not saying I'm particularly good at it but I do try to attack ideas rather than people).

Knowing when to retire from the lists and let the principals get on with it is a life-saving ability Bags Keeping the peace can only be done for a while, then the bystanders save their own skins and let the combatants continue with the real quarrels. I have baled out, suggest you do too.