ADHD and blame

...and I suggest that Boris Johnson could well be another

My mistake:

elitedaily.com/money/10-successful-people-adhd

Here is a nice cheerful link /or all of us who have AD(H)D in the family.

fhttp://elitedaily.com/money/10-successful-people-adhd

SO sick and tired of hearing and reading about people not believing ADHD and saying it's mis-diagnosed and over diagnosed. It certainly is not. It's really hard to get a diagnoses in the first place, and is done by experts who know the difference between a badly behaved [by parenting] child and a ADHD child.My grandson has ADHD and we all wish he hadn't and have done everything we can for him, but without concerta our lives would be far worse than they are.Yes, we use other strategies as well as the tablets, but the meds allow a bit of quiet in his mind and help concentration, poor thing. Don't be quick to judge when you are out and about and watching other people's children.

Petra That is fantastic. 30 years ago we decided to move DS into the private sector at 11 because he got so little help at, what was considered. a good state primary; quote: 'He is a clever boy, he will work out how to sort out his problems' (he was 8 at the time). We chose a small school overall, but not with particularly small classes, because it had a warm supportive feel when we visited.

At the first parent's evening, after he had been there three weeks, almost every teacher commented on his ability - and his tendency to slip mentally into a profound inner world for most of the lesson - and had solutions, one, made him sit at the front and spoke to him every few minutes, another would not let him sit near a window, a third would not let him have anything on his desk, so he had to concentrate on what was being said as he couldn't write anything down. It was such a different attitude. I think they found it a challenge to keep him focussed because if they did he made interesting contributions to the lesson.

We now know he has ADD and has it still, but it was the actions of teachers at his secondary school, who forced him start to engage with what was going on around him which enabled him to achieve his ambitions rather than those at his primary school who just shrugged their shoulders and let him mentally almost completely zone out of lessons on the basis that sooner or later he would work out a solution for himself.

How heartening, petra! Let's hope all new teachers are better informed about the subject and will be able to cope better than some of those more set in their ways.

And what a difference a teacher can make. My DGS last teacher was ( I will put this politely) was coming to the end of her working life.
I don't know how many times we met with her to keep her up to speed with all we were finding out about Sensory deprivation.
She was having problems with DGS so we thought we would give her all the info we could. It was obvious that she couldn't/ wouldn't take on anything we said.
New teacher ( young) We have told her all we know. She took everything on board. When he gets too fidgety she sends him on an errand.
His reading has come on leaps and bounds.

Eloethan - full agreement from me. One of my children was diagnosed with dyslexia after obtaining a 2.1 degree, by which time she was 23. I'd first queried dyslexia this when she was 6 but her (very good) teacher told she was a good average, with an end of August birthday. That response continued throughout her school life, until she re-sat a couple of gcse's in order to get on to a pgtc course at a local FE college, where a proper test confirmed dyslexia. She was relieved, as despite success in education, she was convinced she was "thick" (her words) as she found some aspects so much more difficult than her siblings/friends.
Flick - the children I worked with were often excluded from school at a young age, or had little if any support outside school. I picked up a number of young people in early/mid teens who had found school and home life a nightmare, many of whom had previously undiagnosed dyslexia/dispraxia/adhd etc etc. So sad and so frustrating.

But if everybody keeps telling them they are doomed, doomed they will be. What is needed is encouragement that says, yes, life is difficult but put your mind to it and you can make things better for yourself.

If you keep telling them the odds are stacked against them the odds are they will not even try to move on and up.

The facts speak for themselves - those who come from very poor backgrounds have much less chance of receiving a higher education. That's not to say that nobody living in difficult circumstances will have the opportunity to better themselves but I feel that the odds are stacked against them.

Flick - I'm enjoying your comments on this thread, thanks. I identify with your middle paragraph about your family of origin. I'm sure you're correct in assuming many of us share your experiences of aspirant grandparents.

Your point about killing a generation with kindness is an interesting one. I wonder how much the tendency to make people into victims of some kind, is influencing the self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think any one should be labelled thick or anything else negative but it happens and will continue to happen. However I think it is very negative to say people brought up in difficult circumstances often never get the opportunity to find out what their abilities are.

In recent years we have got into the habit of pushing people down by assuming that their difficult circumstances will condemn them to a life without opportunities. In the past difficult circumstances were seen throughout society as something to be overcome. I grew up in comfortable circumstances because my grandparents on both sides starting at the very bottom of society, with poverty, ethnicity, religion and, on one side illegitimacy, to overcome, overcame them and rose up to professional recognition, comfortable circumstances and public respect. For most of the 20th century this was a not uncommon story and I suspect that many Gransnetters will have families with a similar history.

I think well-meaning people, mainly educationists, have metaphorically killed a whole generation of children with kindness by constantly bemoaning that their circumstances are so dreadful and their opportunities are so few and they find life such a struggle that they are inevitably condemned to a life of failure. Children are then inculcated with a belief in the impossibility of success throughout their childhood and grow up helpless and hopeless. No wonder these assumptions become a self -fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think anyone should be labelled as "thick" anyway. We all have different abilities, and those who are brought up in difficult circumstances often never get the opportunity to find out what those abilities are.

triciaF The "Maladjusted" as they were once described.

I finally got a diagnosis of dyslexia when I was 50ish and doing an OU course. Oh Joy I was not thick!
If only they had known about it years before I could have done so much better at school.

TriciaF thank you, but children who are outside accepted norms will get labelled whether they want it or not, better labelled with the cause of the problem and get help than get negative labels like 'difficult', 'naughty' or 'disruptive' and be dismissed or ignored. My feeling is that people with Dyslexia do get help to overcome their problems. I have friends with dyslexic children and, once the problem was diagnosed, the response was to offer help to get them reading or to finds ways around their problems so that they could achieve their potential. With ADHD the attitude seems to be to cosset the child in their diagnosis.

Iam64. So much depends on the attitude of the person and, as important, those around them. If a problem is seen as a lifelong sentence of helplessness, then that is what it will be. If the person with the diagnosis comes from a background where if there is a problem you look for a solution, if it is within their capabilities, they will do that also. It is good that your GS is part of an enabling family and can understand his own predicament.

A brilliant post, FlicketyB!
I worked as an Ed. Psych.up to the early 90s, and the condition wasn't recognised then. I think it came in with the re-classification of emotional/behavioural disorders in the early 90s.
I especially liked your phrase "the diagnosis is seen as a disabling, instead of enabling".
Giving a label, in my view, is a way of opting out from positive help. The same applies to labels like dislexia.
People with these problems need practical advice on how to live and with benefit from them, rather than having a label hung around their necks. Or given drugs. After all, we all have a learning problem of some kind.

Thanks for this Flick. It's reassuring to hear positive comments. My 20 year old grandson in autistic. He has been reading about it, and his confidence has grown as he understands more about the stuff he finds difficult.

I went through childhood labelled as a clumsy, awkward, difficult child with atrocious handwriting, no good at games or anything like needlework, who had her head permanently in a book. You get labelled if you are different to other children, whether you have a diagnosed condition or not

My ADHD and also dyspraxia were both diagnosed as an adult so nobody knows about it except me and my immediate family. I have found it has been really helpful for me to understand what causes the difficulties I have and for my family to live with my irritating habits; I an still a fidgety Phil, who can't sit still and when I am engrossed in reading I never hearing anything said to me. It has made me more at ease with myself and my limitations and helps me work around them. Because once I know the cause of a problem I can start to look for solutions.

The problem is when children, in particular, get diagnosed with conditions like this is that label is misused and the person and those around them see the diagnosis as disabling, instead of enabling. It is used to access benefits and to excuse unacceptable behaviour and works against them in coming to terms with their problems and seeing how they can use the diagnosis to improve their lives. Children like this do not need support, they need mentors to show them what they can do, not support them in what they can't

I always see my diagnoses as enabling and making life easier for me. But I must emphasise that I am at the mild end of both spectra and those at the extreme end really do have very serious problems and they and their families really do need all the help they can get.

I agree Flick, I've seen so many fidgety, oppositional children make huge leaps when removed from chaotic, neglectful parenting and had their needs met by say relatives, or occasionally foster carers.
As you said, the behaviour patterns of children with ADHD and those from chaotic home lives mirror each other.
Did you get a diagnosis as a child, and if so, do you feel having a diagnosis helps? The divide between those who believe it's wrong to 'label' children, and those who believe that a diagnosis can open doors to appropriate support or treatment remains.
I suspect many adults self medicate with non prescription drugs or alcohol as a way of managing the difficulties caused by undiagnosed autism, adhd, etc.

Regrettably, like a dog, ADHD is for life - and I still have it.

I think the problem is that children brought up in chaotic and disorganised home will display similar behaviour patterns to children with ADHD. the difference is that these children if placed in an ordered environment with clear rules about behaviour etc that are applied consistently will gradually loose their ADHD symptoms. If a child has ADHD, which is a problem within the individual not just a reaction to external pressures they won't.

I spent a year working on a child and adolescent mental health unit, after many years in social work child protection. I started the placement believing ADHD was over diagnosed, and that many of the children with that diagnosis had difficulties because of poor attachments due to abuse or neglect. 6 weeks into working in the clinic afternoon for (largely) boys who were disruptive at school, and over active/displaying emotional behavioural problems at home and school I was an ADHD convert. I share the frustration expressed by others with who have commented on the links between poor parenting and a desire to obtain DLA or other benefits.

When my DGS was about 3 my DD and I knew that ' there was something '
When he started school they said that they thought he had ADHD.
We both said, NO NO NO. We both started doing our own investigating. And after masses of reading everything on the net, we found it. It's called Sensory Processing Disorder.
To cut a long story short, it is recognised in this country, but you have to work hard to get help. It took my DD 2 years to get our council to fund the official diagnosis. I went with her to the clinic and learnt so much from them.
The strange part was, I found that I have many similarities to my DGS.
Just a couple of examples. When he was a toddler his reaction to loud noise was extreme. He would continually ask you, what's that smell when there was nothing untoward. Visually he picks up the most minute detail.
We now know that he is top of the class in maths in spite of being the youngest and is a whizz at chess.

Totally agree Nelliemoser. I used to be a child minder & lots of times when parents came to collect their children, they were surprised to see them engrossed in something & behaving beautifully.
One in particular was amazed to see her toddler son happily looking at books & carefully turning the pages. She said at home he ripped up & destroyed everything so they'd removed everything from his reach! They hadn't actually read him stories so he didn't understand what books were for! He just needed some time & attention, as they all do.

I do believe the condition exists but having seen several of the "super nanny" type programs I can see how unstructured parenting with no sensible and firm discipline can cause extremely disruptive behaviour which could appear to be ADHD.

It seems to me there are neglectful parents who CBA to get their children to behave at all and others who seem to think that setting boundaries for good behaviour is somehow infringing the childs rights.

Note children who behave well in school and are dreadful at home.
You need to give kids lots of positive attention and praise but with firm boundaries about expected behaviour.