Made in China

My OH sits in bed every morning going on and on about how China is going to take over the world. Now he may of course be right, I cannot be certain; but what I am sure of is that I would rather listen to some music in the mornings than this particular rant which I can quote word for word now!

POGS it must have been so hard, coming from Devon to industrial Leics.
The Ladies I got to know, as one of my best friend is their neighbour, were all Leicester born and bred, from the same area- and knew each other since they were kids- so the camaraderie was very close- making it even harder for an 'outsider'- a sort of informal 'closed shop'. But they were, and still are, very proud of their job- and laughed at their poor academic skills, and how it was fairly non-consequential in their lives. I used to take them on trips regularly, and we shared so much, humour, and a great interest for flowers, gardens and history.

Ooops Somerset, sorry.

Granjura I feel saddened that as recently as the late 20th Century women should value their education so slightly. I have no reason to doubt POGS' description of factory work and I cannot see the slightly romantic picture that you portray, of workers happy in their ignorance and willingly exploited.

My grandmother left school in 1899 at the age of 12 and went to work in the cotton mills of Salford.
But she made my mother learn to play the piano and said she could do any job she liked, as long as she got a teaching certificate first.

The education of women has been shown to be the single most important factor in a country's progress, both economically and in health terms. This is quite apart from the individual benefits to women themselves.

The 1944 Education Act liberated our generation, but as a country I think we have been too slow to recognise that the old manufacturing industries, mainly because of labour costs, are not viable, and too reluctant to develop new ones.

I am sure there was no intention to sound patronising but I really question this "rich man in his castle, poor man at his gate" Utopian idyll you seem to be describing, granjura. In my childhood in Scotland I knew many people whose formal education may not have gone beyond the age of 14 but who were extremely intelligent, knowledgeable, clever, wise people whose economic circumstances meant that higher or further educaton was not an option. "Poor academic skills" were not a factor in their lives however even if they were weavers/darners/loom operators in the local woollen and tweed mills. This also certainly did not mean they did not value education, indeed many of them scrimped and saved and did without to enable their children to be the first generation to go to university. Scotland has a reputation (like Wales) for valuing education, but I do not believe for a moment this was unique. I think janeainsworth has it spot on when she says "the education of women has been shown to be the single most important factor in a country's progress. " Intelligent women raise intelligent children - read to them and encourage them in their intellectual development. The shoemaker in my small Scottish Borders town was one of the most intellectual men you could meet - he would discuss the classics, politics, philosophy whatever when you went to collect shoes from being mended despite having left school at 14. Incidentally, his son was a PhD.

My mum "passed" for grammar school but her parents could not afford to send her. She worked as a bus conductress and later in a textile mill. She was very articulate and well read. My sisters in law were both menders in a mill and were asked to take work at home after retiring ,by two of the surviving mills, due to a lack of skilled workers.

It's was hard to assess people's ability to read and write well. Apart from Christmas cards or post cards I didn't often get the opportunity to see their standard of writing, but now we have social media networks, like GN and FB I'm often dismayed at people's poor spelling, grammar, etc.
Many do not even realise they're making such mistakes. I understand the point Granjura is trying to make.

Actually thinking about it .... there are too many young people in schools today who do not value the free education they are receiving.

I don't think our generation valued our education at the time, did they? Took it for granted is more like it.
The reality is that in today's global more or less free market manufacturing garments will inevitably go to the country that pays the lowest wages.
I don't think there ever was a golden age of British manufacturing. Wages were very low, working conditions usage, employment protection law non existent.
Women were not allowed to apply for mens jobs (look at photos of factory staff - often there will be a lot of female shop floor workers (cheaper labour than men) and the office and management staff will all be male.
Workers from the shop floor, however bright, were not allowed to even apply for office jobs.
Even going back 25 years when I joined a newly-privatised utility company, I was surprised to learn that there were still three grades of staff: manual, craft, professional and that if you were employed as a manual or craft person you were not allowed to apply for any office or management roles!

Soutra and Jane, I absolutely and totally agree with you. I hesitate to reply, as I am not sure I'll find the words, and that they won't be mis-interpreted.

These women taught me a lot- they taught me that what would have had me climbing up the walls, and very disatisfied with my life- the injustice and unfairness of it all- the limitations- in particular with regard to education, etc- did not seem to be such an issue for them. They looked back on their working and social lives with humour and even a touch of nostalgy. It surprised me, and at first really saddened me. But I had to take a huge step back and tell myself- NOT to be 'patronising' as Soutra says- and that it is not up to me to decide if their working and family lives had been worthwhile and rich, as they saw it- and they believed I was a 'bit silly' to go back to Uni after my children went to school- and worked so hard at being a teacher- which they would have hated with a vengeance (they said).

We often put value judgements about other people because of our own background and circumstances- and they taught me that at times it is misguided. They impressed me a lot, with their keen and intelligent interest in all around them- and I am thankful.

Granjura You are right that people's own perceptions of their situation in life are often very different from how others perceive them.
My DD did supply teaching for a time in a secondary school in a deprived area of Northumberland.
One day she was talking to one of the boys ( I suppose the correct term these days is 'student') and he was genuinely very surprised to learn that the area in which he had lived all his life was considered in those terms.

I wonder what it is that makes some people see beyond their limited horizons and take advantage of educational and other opportunities that are afforded them, whilst others don't. Is it parental influence, a charismatic teacher, or something in their own personality?

I wasn't allowed not to value my education as Grandparents and Parents explained to me the importance of a good education. I was encouraged to take advantage of my education as, depending on my qualifications, this is what would shape my future.

I know what Granjura is talking about as, during my working life, we were a mixed bunch, working as a team. I was aware there were very different outlooks amongst us. I was hungry for knowledge others further down the scale were content with their lot and couldn't understand why I would willingly want to study and sit more exams. I was told, jokingly, I was off my head.

We have no industry left in this country that is very valuable in terms of the economy. Only banking and that is a bit precarious at the moment.

By shutting down our British industries(ship building, steel, cotton , mines,cars, engineering etc) without planning alternative work whole communities & the country have suffered. London has become over important as this is where money is made and this puts the whole country out of balance.

Most purchases of high end properties in London are by foreign investors: Russian/Chinese etc. They still want a piece of UK!

Granjura is correct that many of the unskilled jobs ( i.e good academic levels not required) sustained communities and that many of the workers were women.

What we have failed to do is to find job opportunities to replace those the factories provided.

We have raised educational expectations which is good and right but have not then provided sufficient work to match qualifications for this new group of better educated people or for the 10%-20% or so of society who may not have the potential to attain high academic standards. We still need people who are able and prepared to do some essential but mundane and uncomfortable jobs..refuse collection, sewer work etc etc.

As China and its people move 'West' they will want better conditions, access to 'luxuries' etc. and will struggle to be as competitive..and it will all move elsewhere!

Nobody "shut down" British industries Penstemmon - they failed to remain competitive in the world once we stopped shafting the empire. Cotton industry only ever grew to the size it did because the UK government would not let the Indians compete (remember Ghandi?)
Or because management failed to modernise.
Who is this we that have failed to plan replacement jobs Penstemmon?

Jess I am fully conversant with Britain's imperialist past and do not wish to defend it in any way.

However the fact remains that we the electorate of GB /society did not shout sufficiently loud enough as a whole ..I marched as I suspect you did too.. against closures of mines and factories because I knew it would devastate communities and undermine that society. I refer to 'we' as being British society and governments.

We had to take to the streets a couple of years ago to stop the closure of the one remaining engine works in this country [which was in danger of disappearing with no one noticing or caring]. If we hadn't've made such a fuss it would have gone under and all of our engines and rolling stock would have been made abroad.

I have no background in Economics but wonder whether we are ignoring the fact that 1) goods were made more cheaply in Britain when workers were paid subsistence wages, sweatshops proliferated and working conditions were often very poor 2) "bosses" made satisfying profits and demand for goods tended to be from the middle to higher earners (what I mean is that up to World War II poorer people had far fewer possessions/clothes/indeed expectations than the so-called "working class" today.) So this worked after its own fashion right up to the mid 20th century.
In order for the owners to maintain profits, if they could cut costs e.g. by cheap imports from parts of the world where local subsistence wages were even lower, they did so, thus putting indigenous workers out of a job. Fast forward to today - lots of demands for all sorts of products at all levels of society, lots of scope for high profits as long as production costs are kept low and you get a situation like Dhaka in Bangladesh. The demand for cheap products is only partly to blame however - granted if you can buy a T shirt in Primark for a couple of quid, someone, somewhere is being paid a couple of pence, but these Asian/far Eastern factories are also supplying high end retailers - so someone somewhere is making a heck of a profit. The world has changed, communications and transport have changed out of all recognition, mass production is staggering but you cannot put the clock back and however much we mourn the passing of the local factory and its "seconds" shop, if we are not prepared to pay for craftsmen/women to produce quality goods in small amounts we will have to accept "Made in China/Rumania/Sri Lanka labels on our garments. Alternatively you can boycott these and seek out UK companies - give it a try.

Soutra see my Buy British Buy Local thread!

I accept that 21Century is a different place but I do think that successive GB governments, in response to the electorate/society, could have made different choices and that we (society) need to face up to our consumerism, of which I am as guilty as the next, and the sustainability of it all.

I do think that decisions to close major job providers ( ship yards/mines etc) needed to be better planned for to substitute alternative opportunities. I believe it could have been done if there had been a political will to do so.

I heard, during the night on the World Service, that some firms are now going in for "re-shoring". says about it here. But another expert said it will never work now. But I can't remember the reasons he gave. I think I went to sleep.

Another pearl of wisdom lost in the nighttime ether.

FT article

Jingl I don't know if it's just me but there seems to be a paywall on that link and when you close it down it just takes you to the FT homepage

Thanks second link works

Worked OK for me.

Sounds like good news.....as Gordon Brown once put it, will it be British jobs for British workers?

Except he promised that it would be!