Made in China

Penstemmon no offence meant - I was not implying that you were personally responsible for anything - just trying to add a bit of background to how we got where we are today . And yes I too supported the miners etc However the 'uncompetitive' point still remains and, looking back, there were a lot of attempts by Uk governments to keep uncompetitive and badly run manufacturing organisations (and pits) afloat as well as times that the plug was pulled. (all those rescue deals in the car industry for instance - and was there ever a less deserving case than that badly-managed union-bullied shower).
What I was questioning was the use of the concept of planning. Governments have some choices I suppose, but isn't a planned economy something that you only get when government owns all the "means of production"? And controls a lot of other things too.

It's not just that labour costs are kept low in China that give it a highly competitive edge, the currency is massively undervalued.

We went to Manchester City Art Gallery yesterday, to see the exhibition on the Industrial Revolution. For me, the whole thing was enhanced by the folk songs playing in the background, which I remember singing with my gran, and later at folk clubs. There are some excellent photographs, which illustrate some of the points here, about the poverty reflected in the clothes people wore, and lists of rules for mill workers. I do remember my grandparents working 6 am - 6pm, but earlier in the century, folk worked from 6am - 7.30pm. I was taken to the mill by my gran in the early 1960's, and met her work pals, and heard the noise in the weaving shed, no wonder they all learned to 'me maw' so well. We wouldn't want to have people working in similar conditions now, despite the sense of comradeship and community there definitely was in mining/mill/factory work communities.
I live in what was a cotton town, and have worked across the north west, so have first hand experience of what has happened in areas that were once proud, working class. The level of drug and alcohol abuse is one of the downsides of the end of traditional industry and mining.

The other thing about the Industrial Revolution exhibition, is it sits alongside Jayson Perry's exhibition looking at class. Fabulous, would recommend it to anyone

Thanks for that tip, iam64. My sister and her husband are coming today and that's something they would be interested in.

It's great anno - I wasn't a huge Grayson Perry fan until seeing this exhibition. The dvd playing in a side room is worth a watch as it shows Grayson meeting with women from middle and working class communities. He is such a warm, empathic character. The exhibition also sits along side Hogarth cartoons, and Perry's work mirrors one of Hogarth's tales of wealth and the loss of wealth. If you go, I'm sure you'll enjoy it

How long is the exhibition on for? It sounds brilliant. There was a Grayson Perry pot at our local cinema a while back and it was beautiful [couldn't believe they'd been allowed to show it there].

Going back to the China thread ............ My daughter lives in Beijing and every time she comes she takes back with her many goods which have been made in China and shipped here but which are cheaper to buy here than in China. Absolutely crackers.
One reason China is surging ahead is the work ethic. They all work so darned hard and I shudder to think how many hours a week my SiL works.
I am not trying to vindicate China as there is a great deal I dislike about it but they see an opportunity and grab it whereas we prevaricate until someone else does it - aided by politicians who are only looking to the next election results

tiggypiro, the industrial revolution exhibition had me reflecting on the lives my ancestors lives (again). My paternal gran and her sister walked from Coventry to the north west, to work in the cotton mills. Gran was put into service at 11 and hated it, so the 2 sisters ran away. They had an uncle in the north west, who put them up until they got on their feet. They worked 12 hour shifts 5 days a week, and half days on Saturday. I respect their work ethic, and general honestly in life. I feel my generation in our family learned so much from them about the important things in life. One of the mantra's of that generation, who'd worked in the mills and the pits, was that we grandchildren would never 'get your hands dirty' at work. They stressed the value of education as a means of escape from drudgery. They were real hard workers but then, like the Chinese today, I suspect they had to be, or starve.
I agree with you about there being much to admire/dislike about China. I love England/Britain, but we are not in a great place socially or politically i fear.