Effective strategies, please

ambiguous post above: I mean I dumped the stuff which she had left lying all around the house into her bedroom!

What about a passive aggressive stance? Make her a place mat carefully appliquéd with clear up in bold lettering. Lay the table for her brekkie and if she doesn't look after it can you do a reproachful face.. Don't let them grind you down. We had battery driven animal crumb sweeper uppers but two DGCs are French and the breakfast table was always a bomb site. Les cochons ont mangés was the cry.

crumbsaway.co.uk/

I'm glad you mentioned repsect, ga. That's really what it's all about as far as I'm concerned. Her not clearing up after repeated requests (over several years; I've been patient enough!) shows disrespect towards me. I don't like it. I will tell her this today.

I assume you do quite a lot of things for her - perhaps she would notice if you weren't so accommodating re her expectations. How would she feel if you, for instance, forgot to stock up on her favourite cereals/snacks/drinks, etc.; left the bathroom in a mess - wet towels on the floor and no clean ones to be found, maybe something soaking in the sink, no toilet paper in the holder; didn't get round to doing her washing, etc.?

But perhaps I'm being childish and the short, calm talk that you have said you're going to have with her is the best route. Who knows with teenagers!

Been thinking about this. It's a simple task you're asking to be completed, but take seriously the reason why that's so. A chat about respect is a good (and non-shaming) way of dealing with it.

I read something the other day that came to mind when mulling this over. Not altogether sure whether it's relevant or not, but found it an interesting statement.

"Maintaining simplicity requires a robust approach" .

I asked mine what jobs they were prepared to do. I said I needed help. They had never thought of it that way, that I was the one who needed a bit of help. I made a list of everything that drove me mad and asked them to choose something from it, and made them promise to keep it up. I told them that if they didn't help me and I had to do those things, then I wouldn't have time to do other things that they really needed and wanted me to do.

So on the second day of DS returning from Uni after having been on various trips and stuff, there was still over a month to fill up so I sat him down and we worked out a new rota. His sister used to take over the ironing - sadly he hates it. But when he's at home, he vacuums his room, gets in all the logs, clears the table after meals, empties the bins and sorts the recycling, prunes all the plants I can't reach and cooks once a week. His choice. He has always cleared the table, vacuumed his room, picked the fruit and emptied the dishwasher since he was 12 - and changed his own bed. I think the choice part is important. His sister chose to do the ironing, Hang out and put away all the washing, (DS does it sometimes) change the beds, cook twice a week and stack the dishwasher.

Wow janerowena - that's impressive.

I never had any problems getting the kids to do little jobs around the house, but how do you train a husband who`s determined not to do anything, because "real men" don`t do housework? May I add that I`ve been trying for over 51 years, and he thinks that I`m very trying!

I always got mine to tidy and clean their rooms (after a certain age and after a certain fashion), help clear up after meals and clear up after themselves, occasionally to cook, help look after the pets, but I did feel, quite strongly in fact, that taking on a huge amount of household chores was not their responsibility. They would be burdened with all the household chores and responsibilities of their own soon enough.

That is essentially my approach as well, roseq, which is why it's annoying when even the little she is asked to do (without being reminded daily!) doesn't get done.

ffinn, I like that <girds loins ready for robustness> <<somewhat wearily

Would she take notice of her Daddy?

If it boils down to a power struggle, it might be better to let her win this one.
'Don't sweat the small stuff'. It's only a few crumbs.
There'll be plenty of big stuff to deal with in the coming years.

Personally I would concentrate on the 'can't be arsed to use a plate' aspect, as I think you put it, Bags.
That would worry me more than the crumbs.
If Minibags used a plate, the crumb problem might solve itself.

It does get wearing bags. After finding myself shouting, because I was working full-time and desperately tired, that was my solution. I did what I did because I read somewhere that girls were refusing to cook and housework was not being done at all in many houses, and my DS, I was determined that he was not going to leave it all to his girlfriend/wife as my DH's had done. So I got going on training him up as soon as he started wanting to stay up later. I thought, if he's got the energy for that, he can use some of it to help out.

The way I look at it, if you are all sitting down to eat and watch tv and relax at the same time in the evening, then it's working. If there's one left out in the kitchen still clearing up, every night, then it's not. Unless that person has been sitting down all day doing nothing.

My mother was given a crumb pan and brush as a wedding present 74 years ago. It was never used and we used to laugh at it. Time to ditch it, op. Whoever loads the dishwasher wipes the table.

What you need is a :-

Time machine!

Set it for 20years in the future, record what she's like then, then return to presen and compare and contrast.

I agree with the "small stuff" advice jane. A friend used to nag her son and go mad about things all the time - I used to say "What ammunition will you have left when he starts taking drugs or mugging old ladies - you have used it all up over tidying his room."

Whilst young people do need to think about pulling their weight and respect for their family, I also think that we need to think hard about what might be their preoccupations/worries in life. A 14 year old girl will have lots going on physically and emotionally and for her clearing and washing a cereal bowl probably feels like small beer compared with her need to understand all that is going on in her life.

I cannot help feeling that unless you start them on being tidy as soon as they can walk and carry a plate it's too late.

That's my counsel of despair. I never did get it right.

What Galen says is so true!

Thatbags DH would say that she has gone into the tunnel and she won't be out until she's at least 20 - anything you say falls on deaf ears!

We used to say that we couldn't wait until they had their own places - we were then going to go and stay and leave all the lights on, drop wet towels in the bathroom and never wash up!

I don't regard polite helpfulness and civilised behaviour as small stuff. How a girl responds to reasonable requests from her mother is not small stuff. It is the stuff of considerateness and respect for other people.

I don't think bringing another parent into it is the answer, either. This is between bags and Minibags.

I agree.

It is the stuff of considerateness and respect for other people thatbags I do agree with that sentiment, but unfortunately I think it does go below the radar much of the time for a few years at home.

Probably Minibags is the most delightful and polite girl to anyone and everyone outside the home.
I used to find that parents who said that their children were well-behaved and nigh on perfect at home in fact had children who could be rude and quite arrogant to other children and parents.
Those who said their children were 'impossible' and argumentative at home were astonished to hear that their teenagers were polite, chatty and charming to their friends' parents.

She is asserting herself over a few crumbs.

It works both ways bags, so if your chat doesn't have any effect, I would stop treating her with 'consideration and respect' and let her get on with looking after herself.
No cooking her meals, washing her clothes etc.
I'm sure she will catch on quickly!

At the risk of being controversial, just let it go, it is only a few crumbs. be thankful that is the only thing you have to worry about with a teenage girl who is otherwise polite and kind and gets up and gets her own breakfast. Although these little things are very annoying ( I have two teenagers so I do know what I am talking about) they are irrelevant compared to the big things which may come along. Compare when they are toddlers: eating their yoghurt before their sandwich doesnt matter, refusing to stay in the car seat does. Don't sweat the little stuff. It was once explained on a Radio 4 programme why secondary schools have this insistence on ties being tied and worn a certain way, a way that all teenagers will try to change/avoid/amend to show their rebellion. The teacher said that while they were concentrating their rebellion on little insignificant and unimportant things like how the school tie was knotted, they were not getting into other potentially more serious issue and behaviour problems. Yes it is very irritating, yes I have bellowed at mine for the same petty things, but in reality it doesn't matter, just let it go and you may find that your daughter quietly complies.