Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

You are mistaken, GT. My view on Poppy and on what happened to her and the people who did it is the same now as it was at the beginning. Pondering on the question of why she didn't say anything sooner than she did has brought me to a conculsion. I've no idea if that conclusion is correct but that hasn't affected how I feel about the whole thing.

I think I understand how you feel about pompa's remarks. I still think your post was very rude, however much you hate what he said. It is not the first time I've thought a post of yours rude. It has nothing to do with the subject matter. You've said yourself that you are nicer in real life than you are on here. I'm glad about that.

I think it might be fair to say at this point, that posters come from all sorts of backgrounds. And, I think that it is safe to say that we all have our trigger points on certain issues.

I would say though, that in those cases, we have to be careful that we dont sweep things up too hastily, or with too broad a brush. To not just immediately see things, which on closer inspection were not meant how we think they are meant.

I am guessing that gransnet and mumsnet are happy with the rules as they stand, and presumably how they have stood for a number of years.
Therefore I guess, it is up to the rest of us to learn how to phrase things and get away with all sorts. It also means that some people who are not so clever with words, have to be more careful than others. Which is not a level playing field.

I think it is worth repeating again, that I dont think phrases of that nature should be allowed.
But I guess that both sites are being moderated in this way, and will carry on so.

Thatbags- I thought I only had one-off my posts deleted? The other deletion was the lesbian one from a pompa supporter as I read it. Sorry you find my posts revolting. I find sexist and sleaze more than revolting and as I've said repeatedly, the most truly revolting aspects of this thread were the outrageous criticisms of Poppy and the support for Pompa . I also think in terms of vitriol I've received my fair share on this thread ( as have some others). even you thatbags on reflection are taking a slightly different view on Poppy - well some of us got there much quicker

I was not around last evening.

This all ties in with my post saying upthread that I have not been able to work out what is a personal attack and what isnt.

There is a system that means that you can use words in certain ways which means a post is not deemed as personal and is therefore allowed to stand.
My guess is that many posters on mumsnet are using the same way of saying things.
There are probably a number of certain such phrases.

Personally, I dont think that the phrases should be allowed.

I agree, absent. I've come to a similar conclusion after pondering on that question.

Interesting how some people take personally calm, general remarks aimed at anyone who might read the thread. I didn't accuse you of anything, trisher. I made a general point about playing the ball not the man in any online discussion.

The following comment is a bit more focussed than that but still not directed at you, trisher.

In my opinion, those who objected most strongly to pompa's posts did so very rudely so, also in my opinion, it's good if their posts were deleted. I disliked those posts much more than anything pompa said. And not for the first time. I've no objection to their expressing their objections. It was the way it was done that I found revolting. I did say this earlier in a different way.

As this thread seems to me to have degenerated into a shouting match I wasn't going to post again, but I have been thinking about bags's question – why did this young woman wait an entire month (quite a long time) to report her concerns to anyone, whether police or management of the building site. I would guess that she, quite reasonably, thought that if she simply ignored this loutish behaviour, the perpetrators would become bored and it would cease. However, it didn't and, because it didn't, it must have seemed more threatening and disturbing. Then it was followed by rather more threatening behaviour which probably triggered a degree of panic, the level of which might not have been totally justified. So she acted because she had no idea what might come next.

I also found some of pompa's remarks/observations a bit patronising and somewhat sleazy but, rather than "rock the boat" further, I was inclined to take trisher's approach and ignore them. However, on reflection, perhaps that was a bit of a cop-out on my part and I quite admire GrannyTwice's determination not to just "let things go" - as women so often tend to do.

As to the outrage about trisher describing pompa as "an old geezer fantasizing", that is, in essence, what he was saying about himself wasn't it?

Given there was already quite a heated debate about what is acceptable male behaviour, it is not surprising that pompa's remarks provoked a reaction from some quarters. Others felt that the way in which pompa was subsequently criticised was unacceptable. However, whatever a person's view on that might be, pompa has received a great deal of support from the majority of Gransnetters so I don't understand why he felt the need to leave the site.

Ana There most certainly was a comment that Gransnet seemed to contain a number of "man haters", and it was suggested that the reason for this might be that they were lesbians. I think this post was deleted.

You say:

"Why should the majority of Gransetters (as it seems to be now) be dictated to by the few who see the bad in all men and none of the good?"

"The majority" is quite at liberty to - and indeed do - express their own strongly held views so in what way are they being "dictated to"? Also, what makes you conclude that those whose opinions are different from your own on this particular issue "see the bad in all men"?

Yawn yawn yawn

Just when you think the level of debate can't sink any further......

My post was pretty high up the scale of intelligence compared to some of the vitriolic posts earlier I thought [sigh]

It's not about 'debating' any more GrannyTwice.

Just when you think the level of debate can't sink any further......

We have a forum called pedants' corner, now we could start one on semantics, reading some of the above posts.

And the other thought that occurred to me was that perhaps we should start taking a critical look at popular music of the last - well how long? 100 years? - as some of it is about men looking at women and vice versa, and commenting on it in song.

Over-reaction.

It's not just about him, jingl, it's about what's 'allowed' and 'not allowed' to be said on GN.

No jings - right first time!

poster!!!

Oh for God's sake! He's flounced before and he's come back. What's all the fuss about? Gransnet will go on with or without any one particular poser!

The impression he was creating as you (and others) present it, trisher, was not the same one that was held by every member who read his posts on this thread.

Why should the majority of Gransetters (as it seems to be now) be dictated to by the few who see the bad in all men and none of the good? I do get fed up with the patronising 'if you'd seen the damage done...' etc,. etc. by former social workers/probation officers et al who only seem to post to put their oar in and criticise the rest of us.

trisher

As you have responded so will I. Your post read.

"Oh it's a joke! I thought it was the rambling fantasies of some old geezer and they were best ignored while the rest of us continued our discussion. Just a minute ha ha".

I know how I interprted your words and I think more GN's than I came to the same conclusion.

As for being accused of playing the man not the ball that sadly is a case of being quite evidentevident at times for those more astute GN 's. to easily pick up on and it happens.

Actually I never used "fantasies" Pogs. What I was actually trying to do was to say that the comments made by pompa were not ones that most of the young men (and some of the older ones) of my aquaintance would even consider making. I know that some people considered his remarks to be humerous, the problem with that being that in my experience people who make jokes about controversial things often hold the views they express as a joke- Jim Davison, Roy "Chubby" Brown. And having made such comments perhaps he should be made aware of the impression he was creating. I hadn't read many of his posts before as some people seemed to have so could only judge by what I read here. I am accused of playing the man not the ball, well it is the 21st century and the bodyline testmatch was some time ago, so maybe it is permissable to bowl a few close things.

Well said, POGS.

For goodness sake 'thick as two short planks'.

DJ and those who are defending their posts I would like to remind you of the bile pompa had to take.

He was said to be patronising and sexist. Accused of leching young women/girls. Made sleazy sexist jokes . Ogled women and had a sexist attitude. Hoped pompa meant what he said - leaving GN. Thought it was the rambling fantasies of some inadequate old geezer. Pleased he had left and accused of sleaze. Called a miscreant who stirred up trouble. A vitriolic post was deleted but only after it had been on the board some while so I am sure most of us read with an uncomfortable feeling.

If you don't think these posts were offensive and of a personal nature then I don't know what is.

We all have a right to post in a manner that can lead to showing absolutely no doubt as to how we disagree with another poster but thread after thread has turned , by some, to include nasty personal attacks. The more apathetic we become the more it gives the impression we are all prepared to tolerate the use of such posts.

Maybe a lot of what has been happening is of our own making by not getting involved when we see personal comments made to others that we would not possibly accept if made toward ourselves. For that reason I am pleased to see this thread has turned away from the course it was taking yesterday but sadly at the expense of a member, or so it appears at the moment.

Oh, I hadn't realised there had been any deleted posts either...