Cannot believe this bigotry

roseq. of course I am totally aware of those facts, and the jobs involved (although most of the labour is on short-term contract at very low wages for foreigners- but this is another story- perhaps an opening for immigrants here)- but I never thought it is a good idea to encourage strawberry eating (and most of them taste like nothing and go off very quicky) or any veg out of season, and covering the country over with polytunnels is a disaster for wildlife and ecology, bees, etc.

But yes, all the issues are very complex indeed, and all are a political choice for land use- and one we can inlfuence with out vote and with our purse (shopping habits- I am sure I am not the only one here who chooses to eat in season and to love tasty strawberries in June all the more because they are not available at other times).

Because of the overcrowding,Anniebach.At the moment the best things in life are free.To everybody.For example,walking in Plymbridge woods with my little dog.The sun shining down through the trees on to the river.Beautiful.(until a bleddy biker nearly knocked me for six)Mind,that's another story.Playing over Saltrum with the kids,collecting conkers.When there's limited space,who will have first choice? Not the likes of me,I don't suppose.
Will it be even safe enough.Not blaming any particular group for violence,but resentment can be the cause.
I don't know.Ive got a head ache now.You explain it.

Seasonal work is already an opening for immigrant labour and there are discontented murmurings among established groups who will not take kindly to the possibility of losing their jobs to refugees.

Mamark, there will always be trees , rivers , conkers, we will not end up standing shoulder to shoulder , your grandchildren , like mine, are in more danger from the internet . Mountains , fields , rivers will not vanish , sadly neither will violence , hope you head ache clears up quickly

Start building houses and there will be work

Ok,Anniebach.its a beautiful day,I'm off to the park with Reuben.x

This is Reuben

Thinking about Cameron's refusal to play ball with the quotas. Hope the EU doesn't remember this when he starts negotiating with them prior to the EU. vote in UK

Enjoy Mamark, I have one like Reuben - Lottie . Please don't get stressed, we can't give safety to millions but we can for some

I remember well those signs Anniebach. My father came from Birmingham and was taking my mother and me through the city when we kept seeing all that stuff about dogs, blacks and Irish. My mother, from a sheltered life in Wales, was absolutely appalled. Not that my father wasn't - he didn't have a racist bone in his body - but I've never forgotten the incident and the look of disgust on my mother's face and hearing it in her voice.

We're mongrels in my family, albeit it ones from the British Isles (English,Welsh, Scottish, Irish and Jewish) and I have taught my children to be very proud of that fact.

I recently left a knitting group I'd started because two members were constantly saying the refugees shouldn't be coming here. It served them right if they drowned, and they should all be sent back to their country of origin. I truly was speechless - so speechless that I couldn't even argue with them! I think they're the only two left in the group now.

But I'm not being complacent about this. Or, I hope, self righteous! I live in a town where you rarely hear English spoken until you get into the centre and I can understand why people feel alienated in their own country. In addition to the Asians who came in the 70s we now have areas where only Eastern Europeans live because there is plenty of work our way.

We could afford to house a lot more people - British and refugees - if we stopped pretending we're an important world power and ditched Trident!

I think this is a different petition to stop the bombing.

www.change.org/p/security-council-stop-the-bombs-so-syrian-refugees-can-go-home

Your not self righteous SuzieB, I too accept it must be difficult in some cities but these people are fleeing bullets, bombs and gassing , they need a place of safety, they wouldn't risk their lives in those awful boats just to look for jobs

MarMark1 Reuben is a cutie! I so miss having a dog to walk.

There will always be somewhere to walk our dogs and enjoy the fresh air. At the moment nobody in England is supposed to be more than 15 minutes from a park area. It's one of the considerations planners take into account when looking at planning applications.

SuzieB nice post

Ok Anniebach.
Thank you Wilma.

and enjoy the fresh air
Not if you saw the news re emissions!

Anyway, I was thinking as we drove through the green and pleasant countryside on our way back from food shopping today.

There are a lot of houses that are empty and need renovation.
There are a lot of brownfield and infill sites which could be used.
Building firms and even firms like Tesco (who intended building and are not now going to do so) own a lot of building land which they should be forced to release to provide homes both for the present population and future incoming refugees.

We surely don't need to build on farmland, golf courses, encroach on any national park land, destroy forests or use AONB if common sense is applied to this and an assessment is made of what land just is available.

www.cpre.org.uk/what-we-do/housing-and-planning/housing/update/item/3781-brownfield-land-could-provide-up-to-one-million-homes

If these brownfield sites were developed, they would probably be in areas where there is more availability of work for the people who move there.
There is no need to encroach very far on our 'green and pleasant land'.

Reuben is delightful- how old is he?

And that begs the question about why only a fraction of new houses are being built?

Leaving the refugee situation to one side for a moment, the number of truly affordable homes being built is very small. The 2012 revamped Right to Buy was supposed to be on a one for one basis and this simply hasn't happened. Affordable Housing needs to include Social Housing and this is not an attractive option for making a lot of money. You can buy a new house and very few people will consider it is under the heading of Affordable Housing because it takes so much of the household income. We have to face facts that for a huge number of people now, wages do not support home ownership. Wages are not going to rise significantly, so Affordable Housing must include a massive Social Housing building programme, not overpriced private homes. The stigma of renting is still prevalent and this is an English/British peculiarity.

Where there's a will there's a way.

In the early 1980s some East African Asians (drafted into Africa by the Colonial British) were being expelled from what was once British East Africa by some dictator or other. My Jewish next door neighbour (my age) whose grand parents had fled the pogroms of Eastern Europe around the turn of the 20th century, was heard in the playground complaining about the arrival of more immgrants.

I hope the government don't try to do the dispersal act they tried with the vietnamese refugees earlier, there was a program on the radio about that last week. They made the point that people who have suffered the sort of trauma caused by wars etc, need to be with those they can share experiences and easily communicate with.

Ths splitting of communties appears to have caused a lot of social problems with some of the post war rehousing schemes where families were moved onto new estates well away from their previous social networks.

To do that with traumatised communities that have language and culture in common causes tremendous stress and leads to a lot of of mental health difficulties.

That idea of moving people to smaller properties and causing social isolation is one of the big problems of the B stupid bedroom tax rule.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2015/09/24/torture-survivors-need-more-than-welcoming-words-from-govern

It's not just about housing.

Nelliemoser I agree isolating families is not a great idea, but I think that is thought about these days. I saw a piece on TV this week about a Syrian family moving into their new home. The father and daughter were granted refugee status two years ago and more recently his wife and son joined them in the UK and they had just moved in as a family. I think it was in Bradford, but I might be wrong. The family were receiving support from a local Syrian charity that helps refugees resettle, as well as from other sources. I was impressed at the things already in place, such as special classes for Syrians learning English for the parents and for the children (the daughter was wearing a school uniform and looked about 6 yrs old). I got the impression there was a serious attempt to help them integrate into their new environment. The father was interviewed and he struggled with his emotions at his family living together in a safe place again. It was very moving and clear that it was still early days for the family and their new life together.

jen no, it definitely is not just about housing. I think what annoys me the most are the things people raise as the barriers to accepting refugees (I don't just mean in here). So many of these barriers are the result of political decisions. Housing is just one example. If people were not allowed to buy their council house, more council houses would be available. Despite the fact that councils are supposed to build a new house when they sell one, it's not happening. Now housing association properties are about to become available to buy. Why can't people see the problem with this when they talk about a shortage of affordable housing?

Agreed, Wilma, particularly about housing associations.
Have you read this?
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/24/housing-associations-agree-right-to-buy-deal-with-government
I find it quite disgusting.

I read it yesterday and was shocked at the nerve of the government doing something so underhand. It will be the nail in the coffin for social housing in this country and the public will not even be aware it has happened.

Thank you Charleygirl.Hes 3 and a half,weighs 5lbs,and is spoils rotten.This is him being groomed,He was sick to death of it.