how do you address the envelope to the 'Lady of the house'?

Had another think on this and decided that if I was addressing an envelope to a woman I'd simply write her full name (first and last names). If i was addressing the envelope to a couple I'd write both names except perhaps for some older couples who might be used to and who might prefer the old-fashioned form of Mr & Mrs Hisname Surname.

So I conclude that the fashion is changing because liberated women like to be recognised as whole people and not simply the "mistress" (that is, wife) of a man, which is, after all, what the 'Mrs' title means.

We have never addressed men as mere husbands of some woman. It's about equality of autonomy is using a woman's own name or initial, whether she uses her husband's surname or her father's or something else entirely.

'Ms' (or, worse, 'Ms.') just sounds like a wasp in a bottle...

It is old fashioned now-a-days, but not to my mind that important. A lot of people these days do not bother with initials at all.

And a lot of people don't bother with titles either, though you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise after the pervasive 'demand' for one's title on online forms that won't let you subscribe or open an account without one. Obviously it's vital for one to have a title to order sheets from John Lewis (picked at random; hooe I'm not doing that particular company an injustice)

The choice of title from the "drop down" list can be amusing. Not just boring "Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss"
When I "registered" at the Jo Malone shop in Edinburgh's George St branch, the list included "Brigadier"(tempted!)
The very camp assistant to whom I confided this said "Oh we all put down "Princess" when we filled ours in!"

Hi I didn't know that we could keep our own names when I got married in 1966. Wish I had known!
Neither of my daughters has taken their husbands' names. The schools appear to have no difficulty in using the both full names on correspondence, however our Welsh aunties insist on using mr and Mrs followed by husbands' names, however many times we explain that they are Not Mrs anything.

My DIL a very highly qualified professional chose to change her name, I was surprised at first but it was her choice. I must say that although schools do manage and keep on top of things it is so much easier when children have the same names as their parents. It gets harder and harder to keep track of things, particularly when divorces happen and re-marriages and you are trying to keep track of families with not just 2 but maybe 3 or even 4 surnames between them!

If a woman is a widow she is no longer the property of her husband, but who is regarded as her owner?

I would never consider myself to be "property" and I don't address any other woman that way.

What really hacks me off is when people address Christmas cards to my partner and myself with his full name followed by my christian name only, like so: Mr John Smith and Mary. (Not our real names, as one of his relations might be reading this!) He gets the courtesy title, I am just the appendage!

This has annoyed me for years - it's so good to be able to get it off my chest! Thank you, Gransnet!

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this one: Christmas cards always (like invitations) being addressed to the lady of the house? Sweet!

My DD is a vicar but likes mail to be addressed to Ms. Bloggs-Smith; her husband changed his name to a melded on when they got married... the joint letters are to Mr. and Ms. Bloogs etc. I find that a bit odd.

At least in England when widowed, they don't use "Mrs. [widow] John Smith" as they do in France. that is perfectly horrible to my mind! [but they never use Mr. [widower]...

When the husband dies, the wife reverts to being the property of her father if he is still alive, otherwise she belongs to her brothers, if any, or brothers-in-law if not!!!

My parents and in-laws always addressed cards and letters to me using my DH's name instead of my own. I think it is an age thing but it really annoys me now. I know what reaction I would get from my DD and two DIL's if I didn't use their own names. I still see it in engagement and birth announcements in The Times so it must be the 'proper' thing to do!

I always put the persons initial of who its meant for .
If is for both of them I put the man's initial .

SiL took our surname when they married. DD usually uses Mrs as her title rather than Dr unless she's complaining about something and thinks she'll get a quicker response if they think she's a medical doctor and needs something urgently

I've been Ms since the 1980s. The first time I wrote it on a chalk board the response was a polite 'Excuse me, you've left the s out of Mrs, miss!'
I used it because I realised that my marital status was none of other people's business. Recently I've begun to think that neither is my gender, however my first name is a giveaway. Perhaps I should become 'Mx initial surname'!!

LOL! "Mx!" Love it!

I was taught by my mom that you address a married woman as "Mrs Husband's Name/Initial Surname" and a divorcee as "Mrs Her Name/Initial Surname" but that a widow had a choice. Of course, all that has changed now. Perhaps the formal rules are still the same, but I don't know anyone who replaces a wife's name with her husband's, except maybe in the case of much older women who were used to that.

When I was in high school, my friends and I would often scribble imagined married names in our notebooks, depending on who we had a crush on. For example, "Mrs Charles Smith." However, by the time I was half-way through college, most of the girls I knew were saying things like, "No, I would never be Mrs Guy's Name Smith! I'll be Mrs/Ms Annie Smith" or sometimes just "Annie Smith," etc.

I still know a few women, however, who take pride in "wearing" their DH's name.

DD didn't change her name when she got married. So when writing to her, I just address it to Ms. (yes I use that - convenient) Susan (not her real name) Bloggs. When writing to both of them, I send it to "Bloggs and Smith." And when to them and their kids, "Bloggs and Smith" on the first line and then "and family" on the second.

I was taught that the correct address to a married woman is Mrs -husband's initial- husband's surname. I used this for many years but noticed that the usage, with advancing women's equality and rights, was fading and sporadic and now omit initials entirely so that I write Mr and Mrs Surname. I kept my own surname when I married so am Miss Maiden-surname though in correspondence I am addressed as Mrs Nhuband's surname. It doesn't bother me as I creates the muddle in the first place and at least it isn't the awful Ms.

What bothers me more than forms of address is that utilities for my joint utility account, jointly paid for out of a joint bank account, put my husband's name on correspondence and, despite being requested to by both of us, refuse to deal with anyone but him.

Our bank tried that too, teacher. I gave them a row about it—told them to look at whose signature was on all the cheques, who runs the online account, etc—and they stopped their nonsense.

On the rare occasions that my FIL wrote to me he always used my married surname with his son's initial - used to get right up my wick - but then this was not the only think about him that got up my wick!!

Many years ago when I was the only breadwinner and OH was a student, the tax people wanted me to fill in the form with my OH's name on, but my income details!!

The garage where we bought our car were a bit uncomfortable when I bought it in my name, even though OH was there. We did this because OH has PD and his signature is a bit unreliable - but I did not tell them that; just looked them firmly in the eye and said "Yes, in MY name!"

well done, lam64! when I first arrived in this country I was horrified that married women not only lost their surname, but on certain occasions their first name too!! I simply could not believe it! For decades now, the law in Italy is that women, whether married or not, use their own surname for matters relating to finance, law, health etc.
If the way men are addressed does not change whether they are married or not, perhaps it would be worth reflecting on why the same does not apply to women in the 21st century. Food for thought....

Yes indeed Florentine - tracing our family history and making up family trees confirms that the women disappear. Doesn't happen in Scandi countries and Greek friends tell me it doesn't happen there either. Historically, it all goes back to ownership and property doesn't it. I wish this could change in the UK without those of us who don't change our name on marriage being seen as dungaree wearing, crew cut and terrifying feminists.

In Scotland there seemed to tradition of giving surnames of previous generations as a middle name.
My mother had two middle names. one was her mothers maiden name and the other was her maternal grandmothers maiden name .
My aunt and uncle also were given family surnames as a middle name,As was my father.
This in the future would help with the tracing back of family trees.
Unfortunately this stopped with me and also my cousins we were all given a second Christian name.

My late wife used to get very annoyed as she was rarely addressed by her name on anything;

She was Mr or Mrs S's daughter at school
At work she was Miss S
After marriage it was Derek's wife
Letters invariably addressed her as Mrs D B...
When she had kids it was Fred or Sarah's mum
While I was in the Army she became SSgt B...'s wife or partner

Nowadays I get confused myself as couples often use their maiden names after marriage so it becomes difficult to address them on, say, Christmas cards so I usually address them by their Christian names, but that can also be troublesome as they sometimes use nicknames or second names.

And don't get me started on the ways of Non English people. I have several Muslim & Sikh friends who seem to use different names and spellings depending on who they are addressing

The minister of my church hyphenated her name with her husband's when they married. Changing her surname was routine, but changing his surname confused almost everybody. You would think it wouldn't be any more difficult.

I have two sets of friends who recently married. The female/female couple have kept their surnames but one of the male/male couple changed his surname to his husband's. I bet that caused confusion!