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Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

(588 Posts)
suzied Mon 06-Mar-17 07:38:12

Jenni Murray has been criticised for writing in the Sunday Times that transgender women cannot be real women as they have not grown up with the experiences of being women. Basically a transgender woman is just that , transgender, and not a woman. I agree with her, I have sympathy for those with psychological issues about gender, but I don't think a man who has had an sex change operation = a woman.

LumpySpacedPrincess Fri 17-Mar-17 16:25:36

Penstemmon, nail on the head! It's the academic clique that talks about sex as a class and therefore cuts through all the "not all menisms." Thank god for the academic clique, they named the problem.

As for 50% representation, there is some research that shows that when people watch a film with 70/30 male to female actors they feel that women were equally represented, when a film shows 60/40 male to female actors people felt the film was biased towards women even though women were still under represented. Just look at all the grief the last two, rather excellent, Star Wars films had, just because they both had female leads.

We all live in a patriarchy and we all internalise that to some degree, can't be helped, it's the air we all breathe, but feminists recognise that the air is toxic.

absent Fri 17-Mar-17 20:49:14

LSP Someone did some research in classrooms quite a while ago about how much time the teachers were perceived to interact with boys and with girls. The pupils' perceptions largely coincided with the figures you give for the Star Wars films. I can't remember exactly when this research was done but I was quite a young woman at the time and am now quite an old woman – so decades.

LumpySpacedPrincess Fri 17-Mar-17 21:21:28

That's fascinating, I'm going to dig up some of this, I feel a new hobby coming on! smile

Perception versus reality, confirmation bias.

Penstemmon Fri 17-Mar-17 22:33:02

Might have been Dale Spender's research. She did a lot of stuff about then absent

Penstemmon Fri 17-Mar-17 22:40:06

No! think it was Val Walkerdine! All part of my dissertation research for my Diploma at Roehampton! Gosh that was a brain search!

absent Sat 18-Mar-17 00:32:15

Well done Penstemmon. The research never had any particular relevance to anything I was doing; it just stayed in my mind.

grumppa Sat 18-Mar-17 07:54:48

This controversy is getting to me. My eye was caught yesterday by the dealer's sticker in my car's rear window: Trans City Autos, based in Walthamstow. I found myself wondering: if they opened a branch across the River Lea in Clapton, would it be called Cis City Autos? Or is it just a weary car salesman's description of trendy London E17?

thatbags Sat 18-Mar-17 08:22:34

grin

Anya Sat 18-Mar-17 08:35:19

Nice one grumppa

MissTT Thu 01-Jun-17 23:55:37

Just to correct some english, Transgenders isnt a word ;-) by the way...

MawBroon Fri 02-Jun-17 09:52:07

Thank you for sharing that. But is it being used as a noun? confused
Perfectly acceptable adjective, like transalpine, transatlantic, transcontinental etc etc etc.

MawBroon Fri 02-Jun-17 09:52:55

Like it grumppa always knew Walthamstow was where it's at.