Vaguely disgruntled

Those who feel this is acceptable, might I ask how you might feel if the sting at the end related to JW, Islam, Buddhism, fundamentalist creationism, paganism etc etc.? - i.e. anything but a relatively benign variant of Christianity.

It's funny, I was reading a guide for new university students recently and it said the ones who invite you round for a coffee for no particular reason will usually turn out to be the evangelical Christians. This happened to me 45+ years ago and there was no clue till you got there and they all started talking about the Christian Union. Their justification, I think, would be that they should use any opportunity to evangelize because its for people's own good.

You were quite right in feeling 'used'. It annoys me to think of some religious groups or should I say 'cults' assuming that their beliefs give them the right to 'save' anyone not of their ilk. I'm talking of Christian groups here but they are still fundamentalists/extremists, call them what you will. I suspect that the tea party group in this case belonged to one of the newer 'churches' - they seem to hone in on the vulnerable (not implying that Eglantine19 is of course). Some of their tactics are not far off brainwashing, and always seem to have been founded by some enlightened person now living a life of luxury. Very unedifying.

Not the way to behave being christians you think that they would have mentioned it beforehand.

Of course, they do say that 'there is no such thing as a free lunch' perhaps that applies to cake as well.
Glad that you took it all in good part Eglantine19

Eglantine19

Be afraid......be very afraid! It's not religious fundamentalism we should be wary of...they are up front and conspicuous. It's the sneaky, underhand, middle English ladies of christianity! I'm an atheist and have been since my rational and reasoning mind ' kicked in' at about 15/16 years of age. I would never let my own children or my grandchildren anywhere near these awful people. I don't go around 'peddling' atheism and don't push it down anyone's throat.... but if I wanted to it would be accompanied by tea and cake.Always be wary of middle-of-the-road where religion is concerned... they're corrosive!

It was pulling people in on false pretences. I'm afraid they would probably have regretted having me there. I am an atheist and more than happy to calmly debate the issues of religion. I would have calmly and even with a friendly air, challenged their beliefs!

We occasionally get invited to a barbecue by people we don't know but we don't go because somebody warned me about their hidden agenda. We are not churchgoers and we don't want to go to bible study.
So, yes, I would have felt very disgruntled also and I think you handled the situation very well.

Oh phoenix you are naughty

Whilst I empathise wholeheartedly with the OP's sense of 'vague disgruntlement' (love that phrase!), some posts here have made me wince.

I was actively involved in church life for decades, married to a vicar and have an honours degree in theology. I might also have fallen into the category of a 'middle England lady of Christianity.' I hosted tea parties in the rectory garden, I ran prayer and study groups, I set up a parent and toddler group which still serves the community. However, none of this was done with the 'sneaky' desire to evangelize and drive people through the doors of church as an imperative. Rather, I look back on a time of service to the community and intellectual enquiry, founded in love, not fundamental extremism.

The whole point of 'faith' is that it is 'beyond' what is rational - it requires a 'leap' - which is challenging because of course, rationally, it does not make sense.. Therefore it is not an intellectual failing to 'believe' it is a choice. Where 'blind faith' is apparent within a congregation, that will always require challenge if it founds bigotry and extremist tendencies.

However, many, many people who identify with a Christian faith go on enquiring and wondering, rather than ignoring the intellectual challenges involved. In my experience, they are people of deep integrity with sound values. Many have made wonderful contributions to the fabric of our society.

I have no desire for an' argey bargey' about religion, but some of these posts show a lot of ignorance and, frankly, a cheap desire to 'knock' Christianity by taking one (to my mind) ill-advised form of evangelism as representative of the whole and then applying all manner of negative and offensive labels.

Fact: it was a sneaky tea party.
Fact: it was not unreasonable for the OP to feel justly disgruntled.
Let's just leave it there.

Except to say Phoenix- what a triumph! And I for one would have preferred your tea party.

Surely the whole point of GN is to have discussion topics. I haven't seen anyone showing ignorance and if they're knocking Christianity that's their prerogative. Everyone has been polite in their discussion. I don't understand why you want the discussion to stop.

Out of interest Imperfect do you still have your faith and do you still belong to a church? I hope you don't mind me asking. If you do please ignore me.

I used to belong to a Christian group and many of its members were genuinely concerned about what would happen to their friends and relatives, if they did not "accept the truth" before their deaths.
If that is one's mindset then it's not unnatural one would feel it okay to use any possible method to help people to see "the truth".
That's not to say that it will be well received, of course.

Oriel l think if you re-read you may spot some unnecessarily derogatory comments. I have no problems with discussing topics, but some posts are derogatory. mumofbadboys*, no l don't mind you asking and yes, l have 'a' faith, but find it easier to express beyond organised religion. I always said l was more spiritual than religious in younger life. I value many things about the C of E and miss some traditions, but cannot sign up wholeheartedly to all the doctrines/ credal statements and find it more useful to contemplate God as 'love in all things.'

Well said Imperfect.

I too as involved with the church many moons ago, until I decided organised religion wasn't for me.

I wouldn't want to be 'recruited' and perhaps I'd have been annoyed to discover a hidden agenda for a tea party, but I quite like listening to the reasons why people believe, so it wouldn't have bothered me too much. I am fairly strong so wouldn't have been coerced into anything.

I too know women who are pillars of the community and they are Christians. None feel the need to tell me they are but all of them do so much for their communities in quiet and conscientious ways. They are the epitome of Christianity, for me. They give of themselves and look after the needs of others. Their faith and church are not for me, but I do admire them and the way they someone find the vulnerable when they are at rock bottom. They don't have a recruitment agenda, just a faith which drives them to care.

It takes all sorts and I for one feel the world is made richer by having people in it who give up their time and go out of their way to help others, whether they have a faith or not.

somehow

No, I genuinely don't see any derogatory posts.

There are opposing viewpoints but that's what discussion is about isn't it? How has anyone been offensive?

I too was very involved in the church and my husband was a church elder. He has come from a family of preachers going back generations. We are both atheists now, as are most of the family. Those who remain in the church do so because of the fear of leaving, not because they have faith. When I say fear, I mean the fear of loosing the social club to which they belong. To pull out takes courage, as we have found out as we lost all our 'friends'. I'm only telling you this so you don't think I'm coming from a viewpoint based on ignorance imperfect.

Many people have been and are being deeply scarred by religious doctrine and it's outworking - it's bound to come in for a backlash. It warrants discussion. Too many people play the I'm offended faith card.

Just to be clear I wasn't starting an anti-religious post. Frankly it was all about ME! I thought I was being asked to a tea party because there was something about ME that someone liked and the disgruntlement/ruffled feathers was I think a result of feeling that I was just a potential recruit. Obviously not as likeable as I thought I was!
That was what bothered me.
This is the woman who went past the Mormon headquarters in London last year and thought "Didnt know this was here. I'll just go in to see."

Thanks for replying Imperfect. I too am married to a clergyman but he is retired now although still helping out.
I don't feel you should think you are ' not as likeable as you thought you were ' Eglantine. I too would not have liked a tea party with a disguised agenda. I think people are attracted to the Christian faith by seeing Christians living loving and giving lives and acting out their faith. ( I am not suggesting in any way that loving lives are not lived by folk of other religions or none)

I can understand that feeling Eglantine, old friend contacted me to meet up & I thought ohh how lovely, but come the day it was 'pyramid selling ' (any one remember that?) that was on the agenda. Although it was an unpleasant feeling I was very grateful to realise that I am not a person who works that way. I guess that old saying 'birds of a feather stick together ' another old saying I love is ' if it sounds to good to be true , it usually is to good to be tue ! Ohh dear just realised that I have become cynical ?

Oh I would have been so tempted to say I was a fully paid up Satanist and would they like to come round and have tea at mine sometime and we could discuss how things were going and who was winning. I don't mind people being religious, I don't mind them asking if I would like to join them, but to do it at tea-time and ruin it. It shouldn't be allowed. I understand exactly how you felt Eglantine19 I just hope the cakes were good and you ate as many as possible.

Ah yes Trisher. Alas for my Joe Wicks diet

Brilliant ,Trisher ,a girl after my own heart. I used to get fed up with men talking about car engines, so introduced my own washing machine conversation. Certainly put a halt on the proceedings for a while.?

mumofmadboys people living non religious lives are also capable of giving selflessly. I don't know if it was missed that part from your post purposefully or not, probably not but I just wanted to point that out.

There are many, many secular charities and organisations who do absolutely stirling work, often unsung. Médecins Sans Frontières, Oxfam, Amnesty International to name a tiny few. My husband is involved in an international charity and has been for years, no religious strings attached. You don't need religion to lead a selfless life giving to others.

You say that you feel people are attracted to the Christian faith by seeing how Christians live their lives. How are they living their lives in any way differently to any one else?

I have seen first hand the most appalling behaviour from Christians and have myself been on the receiving end of their 'loving and caring ways'. By the way I was a Christian at the time, so this abusive behaviour was not meted out to me because of my current non-belief. That is my first hand experience. Of course we read almost daily the savage brutality carried out in the name of religion in other regions in the world.

Just to be clear - Eglantine, your post didn't seem anti-religious at all and I am sorry if you feel it has been hijacked into a religious debate. Posts do have a way of meandering .